Scenario!!

[PaNovice-hunter]

I have a valid LCTF and sometimes I open carry. After reading many of the posts on this forum, I thought I would put out a scenario which I have often pondered. Curious of your responses.

Scenario: You and you're wife, or girlfriend, or son, daughter whatever (just two of you) are in a gas station convenience store. Day or night, place is empty except for clerk. You are on the far side looking at bottled drinks to pick. Armed robber comes in and goes right to the front of the clerks counter, pointing at gun at the clerk. Robber doesnt see you. You and you're loved one have knelt down behind the aisle parallel with the clerks counter. You are aprox 12' away from the robber. Peeking around the corner you can see the robber clearly from head to toe. You recognize that at anytime you or you're loved one could make a sound and the robber could turn and see you. While watching the robber between two bags of Doritos, you see he has his finger on the trigger. You tell yourself that you could easily place aim on his head and end it there without anyone but him being injured. You ponder this, because he may just take money and leave. He also could shoot the clerk. You also dont know if a partner is waitng outside in a vehicle. The man with the gun could spot you at any time now, he could shoot at you, or walk down the aisle with gun pointed at you, which than increases you're chances of being shot even if you shoot him.
If you shoot first, while his gun is pointed at the clerk...it is over.

What do you do?

[PA Traveler]

I don't purport to have an answer... but I do have a couple of thoughts. Unless your skill level with a handgun is awfully high, if you miss, its far from over, and you (and your loved one) are now the prime target(s) in a firefight in a very small space. You have no legal obligation to intervene, and you have to live with your decision to do so or not.

But even if you do not miss, unless your round penetrates (the skull has been known to deflect even large caliber rounds) AND you hit the small (~2 inch) area of the brain that instantaneously shuts down the central nervous system, the bad guy's reflexive reaction when hit will most likely cause him to discharge his weapon. The clerk goes down with him.

Don't kid yourself that squeezing off that round means its over. At that point it may have just begun.

[PaNovice-hunter]

Don't kid yourself that squeezing off that round means its over. At that point it may have just begun.

Ellaborate on that response. At 100 yards I consistently can land all 8 rounds in a 8" circle with 45ACP. At 12' I could pick an eyelash and take it off. At 12' the other side of his head would be all over the fountain drink machine.
Of course adding stress to the situation anything is possible.

That aside, the question was what would you do?

[Philbert]

I have a valid LCTF and sometimes I open carry. After reading many of the posts on this forum, I thought I would put out a scenario which I have often pondered. Curious of your responses.

Scenario: You and you're wife, or girlfriend, or son, daughter whatever (just two of you) are in a gas station convenience store. Day or night, place is empty except for clerk. You are on the far side looking at bottled drinks to pick. Armed robber comes in and goes right to the front of the clerks counter, pointing at gun at the clerk. Robber doesnt see you. You and you're loved one have knelt down behind the aisle parallel with the clerks counter. You are aprox 12' away from the robber. Peeking around the corner you can see the robber clearly from head to toe. You recognize that at anytime you or you're loved one could make a sound and the robber could turn and see you. While watching the robber between two bags of Doritos, you see he has his finger on the trigger. You tell yourself that you could easily place aim on his head and end it there without anyone but him being injured. You ponder this, because he may just take money and leave. He also could shoot the clerk. You also dont know if a partner is waitng outside in a vehicle. The man with the gun could spot you at any time now, he could shoot at you, or walk down the aisle with gun pointed at you, which than increases you're chances of being shot even if you shoot him.
If you shoot first, while his gun is pointed at the clerk...it is over.

What do you do?

You are painting a still picture, but real life is highly dynamic. An actual robber is unlikely to stand still while you observe pertinent details and line up a head shot.

[headcase]

You stand ready to protect yourself and your loved one. Engaging the robber with your loved one sheltering in your protection, is like calling 911 after a shooting in the middle of nowhere- you have just given up any chance at anonymity. If he notices you, then you shoot him. If you try to shoot him before he notices you, you risk putting your loved one in a very bad spot.

Personally, I would probably have a hard time not intervening, if I thought the clerk was in imminent danger. If I have a clear shooting lane, then I probably give a short, sharp whistle, and if he turns toward me I shoot him. Depends completely on what I think the likelihood of the clerk getting shot is, weighed against the risk to my loved one.

[PaNovice-hunter]

Again...WHAT WOULD YOU DO?

I dont need for you to tell me what I can or cannot do. I am simply asking what would you do?

Thanks headcase, you answered the question.

[Big Chuck]

This is perhaps my most pondered scenario.

To start off with, I would care little about the clerk compared to my family. So the question is, what is the best thing for my family?

If I draw and take aim, and wait to see if he discovers us. and he see's me pointing a firearm at him, he may reflexively start shooting at me.

If I don't take aim and just hide, he may still reflexively start shooting if he discovers us, although I believe he would be less likely to do so.

I am not the best shot, but at 12' I could easily get a 2" group at the range. Under stress is a different story though, and I would not have the confidence to just take one well placed shot. If I committed to shoot, I would want to empty an entire mag in him, while moving away from my family.

Having never shot anyone, I can only rely on stories and real life videos to judge what a person might do after being shot, which seems to be to fall and try to run away, and if given enough time, shoot back at you. This is obviously not the most reliable of information.

I would like to think I would shoot, but I'd probably have to be there to really know what I would do.

[PA Traveler]

Ellaborate on that response.

That aside, with a system full of adrenalin you are half as good as your best day ever on the range.

What I am saying is the probability of success in this scenario is between absurdly low and nil for a "one shot stop".... and all the marbles are on the line.

I do what it takes to protect my family. If I wanted to protect everyone else's family I'd apply for a badge.

[rkrcpa]

Take cover (Doritos ain't cover) and wait it out. After spending ten years behind the counter of a mini mart I've run just about every possible scenario through my head. Taking the shot would not be my first choice if I'm a bystander. My responsibility is to my family, not the store clerk. However, if things started to go badly (robber becomes agitated, violent etc.) that might change things.

As has been said before, if you want to play cop get a badge.

[LorDiego01]

I once read an exact situation in a CCW book.

The were several outcomes... (I paraphrase more or less)

1) You Shoot and kill the perp. Congrats! You've just shot an undercover officer in the middle of a sting. The clerk was dealing drugs/illegal guns/ect. You are now bankrupt and go to jail for life.

2) You shoot and kill the perp. You are now sued into oblivion by the perp's family. You also go to jail.

3) You shoot, miss, firefight ensues. You, the perp, or the clerk could very well end up dead.

4) Get your weapon ready. Remain hidden. Only act if the perp shoots the clerk or comes towards you. Remain a useful witness.

I pick 4. I'm not a crime-fighter. I'm not batman or Chuck Norris. When it all comes down to it, I'm only interested in keeping myself and my loved ones safe. If I wanted to risk my life for other people, I would have joined the force or the army.