END THE FED RALLY, IN PHILADELPHIA

[twoguns]

Here is a link to the site:

http://endthefedusa.ning.com/events

END THE FED RALLY
November 20,2010
11AM

For any folks not familiar with the devastation the FED has wrought upon our nation, please go read THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND
by G. Edward Griffin

Do you think that the latest round of QE (quantitative easing =theft through inflation) is anything but disastrous? Creating more debt to pay debt is insanity! The Federal Reserve Banking Cartel is at the root of what is killing
America.

Now is the time!

END THE FED.

[andrewjs18]

I'll be there.

[tsafa]

I would like to suggest a proposal to replace the Fed Board members with the Governors of each state. A 2/3 vote would be required to change the money supply or change interest rates.

The Fed is suppose to be an Inflation fighter an they are not doing their job well at all. Changing the way CPI is measured is gimick to make them look good. Inflation is best measured by tracking the commodities index.

[phillykev]

There cannot be runaway inflation without full employment.

For those unfamiliar with Keynesian economic theory you should read "Keynes: The Return of the Master" for a good eplanation of why Keynesian response to the current economic crisis is the proper path to follow.

If you have read that, you understand the IS/LM model and how it relates to QE, and you still think the Fed is wrong, well, I respect your opinion. If not, then your opinion is more than likely based on fear mongering from pundits and you should probably understand what you're protesting before you protest it.

[tsafa]

There cannot be runaway inflation without full employment.

You do not need runaway inflation to have instability. I remember back in 2000 when unemployment was below 5% I would go out on interviews and get 5 job offers and then start playing the offers against each other just to see how big a "number" I could score. I would take a job and in a few months start the game all over again just for kicks. At the same time I was in a position of hiring people for those companies, so I had subordinates playing the same games on me. The situation created a great deal of instability and a lot of waste as employees kept moving around. The Dot Com bubble burst set things right and created some stability. The Dot Com era was about hype, not productivity.

The Fed Reserve has not been doing its job. The Fed's job should be to fight inflation... period. Not to favor any particular industry over another or force a boom economy, that will inevitably crash (like housing), they should just be maintaining a stable monetary system. It is clear to me that the Fed Reserve has become too attached the the executive branch and has been so since the Clinton era. Replacing the Fed Res members with the state governors who are not subject to appointment by the President and approval by the Congress, as I mentioned in my earlier post, would restore independence to the Federal Reserve System. It would also give the states a means to control the budget of the Federal Government.


I do not think we should dump the Federal Reserve System because there is no system that could take its place and scale to a growing economy. The system is ingenious... the problem is that is has been abused by uncontrolled money creation backed by debt. The national debt mostly represents all the newly created money. Every new dollar is borrowed into existence.

Businessmen, have already figured out that the Government is way beyond "Tax and Spend"... even beyond "borrow and spend" they are well into "print and spend". Bussinesmen for a long time have made it their priority to stay ahead of the governments money printing tactics by constantly raising prices. Consumers realize with with common sayings such as "prices are always going up". Yes, they are, because things have been at the point for a long time now that they are more worried about the staying ahead of the inflation curve then they are about being cheaper then their competition.

Don't look at the CPI index to judge inflation, the CPI is a very manipulated number. Look at the plain old commodities index.

http://www.mrci.com/client/crb.php

When you look at the commodities chard you think you are seeing the price of goods going up. False. The price of goods does not go up unless there is a shortage. In an index chart any real shortages in one or two goods would be smoothed out by averaging. Instead what you are seeing in the charts is the value of the dollar going down as they print more of it. Simple supply and demand rules apply to money too.

Money printing is just another form or taxation as the government erodes our savings. It is a very sneaky from in "income redistribution" too as the government gets to pick where the newly printed money will be spent.

Part of the problem here is the the Government has spoiled people into expecting boom economies fueled by artificial money printing. People feel richer but don't realize that the extra money they have is just inflationary money that buys less. The Fed Reserve needs to stop printing money and just tell the people to expect the economy to muddle along as it is for a very long time.

[andrewjs18]

There cannot be runaway inflation without full employment.

For those unfamiliar with Keynesian economic theory you should read "Keynes: The Return of the Master" for a good eplanation of why Keynesian response to the current economic crisis is the proper path to follow.

If you have read that, you understand the IS/LM model and how it relates to QE, and you still think the Fed is wrong, well, I respect your opinion. If not, then your opinion is more than likely based on fear mongering from pundits and you should probably understand what you're protesting before you protest it.

oh? if the Keynesian economic theory is such a good way to go, then do tell me why we're in such sad economic ruins?

why does Paul Krugman absolutely REFUSE to debate Robert Murphy who is a Mises scholar and preaches the Austrian economics theory? Murphy has pledged $100,000 to a NYC shelter IF Krugman debates. so not only does Krugman KNOW that Keynes theory is absolute GARBAGE, he's unwilling to actually admit it. that's pretty sad considering $100K is on the line to help feed the poor.

why is it that Keynesians think that bailouts work?

why is it that Keynesians think increasing spending by either printing money or directly buying assets works?

do I need to go on?

[twoguns]

More kudos to you, Andrew!

"The accepted version of history is that the Federal Reserve was created to stabilize our economy....Even the most naive student must sense a grave contradiction between his cherished view and the systems actual performance. Since its inception, it has presided over the crashes of 1921, and 1929; the Great Depression of '29 to '39; recessions in '53, '57, '69, '75, and '81; a stock market "Black Monday" in '87; and 1000% inflation which has destroyed 90% of the dollars purchasing power." From THE CREATURE FROM JEKYLL ISLAND by G. Edward Griffin

Apparently the other posters with a contrary view have been drinking the Kool-Aid!

END THE FED!
America needs lawful money and honest banking.

[tsafa]

How modern Fractional Banking works:

line 1 Bank Starting Capital......................1,200

line 2 Reserve for Bank working capital........................................... ..200

line 3 Private Loans..........1000.......1000........1000........ ..1000

line 4 Int + Prin.................2000........2000......2000... ....2000


Total Principal + Interest on Line 4= $8,000

Line 1 Starting capital is only $1,200

Line 2 The bank keeps only 200 in reserve.

Line 3 The bank has lent out $4,000 on $1,000 and expects to get paid back $8,000.

The money to be payed back, the total of Interest + principal on line 4 ($8,000), does not exist because on line 1 they only started out with $1,200.

More money must be created (printed) to pay back the Int + Prin... or the borrowers will default. The system depends on more borrowers coming in after and create more money through debt borrowing. Yes, Factional Banking is a legalized Ponzi scheme, but there is nothing better that would scale to a growing economy that has been thought of yet.

The system is designed so that all new money must be borrowed into existence. More money must be constantly created or else the borrowers will default because at any given time there is not enough money in existence for ALL borrowers to pay back their debt. The Church understood this and tried to ban the practice of Fractional Banking. Andrew Jackson, the 7th US president, knew this too and fought hard to destroy the Second Federal bank. The charter of the First was allowed to expire. The point is that there are costs and benefits to this system that have been known for a long time.

The system is good because it allows for the money supply to scale to a growing economy. The system requires that all borrowings are backed by collateral. So if allowed to work properly, it is a very good system with a built in control on inflation. The money created at the local level IS backed by something. It is backed by real assets which have an intrinsic value much greater then gold. Gold is not good for much except art. If economy grows too fast... it will result in a situation where there are not enough new loans coming in.. when there are not enough new borrowers coming in to borrow more money (create new money), some people will default (recession). This is the built in control on inflation.

The only problem with this system is the Government. The government has given itself the ability to borrow as much money as it wants without putting up real assets as collateral. The Treasury just prints up paper bonds and sells then to the Fed Res for new cash. The Government basically gives itself an IOU for new money. This is proof that anything that government touches... turns to sh1t.

It is false to say that our money is not backed by anything, it is infact backed by real assets that borrowers use as collateral. The only problem in this system is the Government borrowing which is not backed by anything of value other then its "power" to tax and confiscate property almost at will.

As the govt borrows more and more, its debt becomes a bigger percentage of ALL the Outstanding debt. As that Government percentage goes higher, it means that a greater percentage of our money is NOT backed by real assets.

There is only one possible solution to this problem at this point. The national debt can never be paid back, since in this system the money to pay it all back never exists at any point in time. The amount not actually owed to anyone must be written off. That should be balanced by proportionally decreasing the private debt and the money supply. The effect of this is "Deflation". The problem of this is only psychological as people will have to get use to the idea of taking a pay cut every year. That however would be offset by lowered living expenses.

[phillykev]

The effect of this is "Deflation". The problem of this is only physiological as people will have to get use to the idea of taking a pay cut every year. That however would be offset by lowered living expenses.

I think you meant psychological, but regardless, there's also a very real threat due to that from deflation. If people believe that money will be worth more in goods and services in the future, they will hold off on buying anything as long as they can. That lowers demand, increases unemployment and accelerates disinflation. Meanwhile, the only way to combat that is to constrict the money supply and raise interests rates. That's how Volcker pulled us out of staglation in the early 80's. The result was the highest long term interest rates to ever exist in a capital market. And higher unemployment (the increased interest rates only helped with the disinflation portion of stagflation, not the unemployment). The result was a recession, and 6 years later, recovery. Fun times.

[tsafa]

Thanks for the word correction. I did a spellcheck and picked the wrong choice.

It think that it is important for people discussing this matter to understand it fully. It is important to understand that any change or no change will have consequences. "Ending the Fed" means replacing it with something else... What will that be?

I don't think the problem is so much the Federal Reserve System, so much as it is who is running it and what are the checks and balances in place. I would like the see the Board of Governors of the Fed replaced with the actual governors of each of the 50 states. A check on the system would be to require a 2/3 vote to change the money supply or interest rates. No chairman and no need to report to congress because they would be fully independent. In effect the power of money printing would be returned to the states.


In any fully matured nation, you can not help one group of people without hurting another group of people. It is just how it is. The best thing of government to do is realize this and stay out of the way. Let the people succeed or fail on their own. If they fail it will be their own fault. When the government gets involved, it is the government's fault.

Deflation does have its consequences and would hurt certain groups of people. Printing money also hurts people. In the case of QE2 the government is directly responsible for the consequences of eroding peoples savings or preventing appreciation of their cash. Your position is that people should spend money rather then save it. My position is that he government should not be manipulating people do one or the other.


The other thing I am not comfortable with is the idea that just moving money around is somehow automatically a good thing. Money is representative of units of labor and goods. Digging a hole in the ground for no good reason and then filling it back up is an act of labor that has no real productivity.