FBI raids Liberty Dollars

[Agent Smith]

Not sure if this is a hoax or not according to the link below, but I'm posting it anyway.

By bbowman - Posted on November 15th, 2007

From the Liberty Dollar headquarters:

Dear Liberty Dollar Supporters:

I sincerely regret to inform you that about 8:00 this morning a dozen FBI and Secret Service agents raided the Liberty Dollar office in Evansville.

For approximately six hours they took all the gold, all the silver, all the platinum and almost two tons of Ron Paul Dollars that where just delivered last Friday. They also took all the files, all the computers and froze our bank accounts.

We have no money. We have no products. We have no records to even know what was ordered or what you are owed. We have nothing but the will to push forward and overcome this massive assault on our liberty and our right to have real money as defined by the US Constitution. We should not to be defrauded by the fake government money.

But to make matters worse, all the gold and silver that backs up the paper certificates and digital currency held in the vault at Sunshine Mint has also been confiscated. Even the dies for mint the Gold and Silver Libertys have been taken.

This in spite of the fact that Edmond C. Moy, the Director of the Mint, acknowledged in a letter to a US Senator that the paper certificates did not violate Section 486 and were not illegal. But the FBI and Services took all the paper currency too.

The possibility of such action was the reason the Liberty Dollar was designed so that the vast majority of the money was in specie form and in the people’s hands. Of the $20 million Liberty Dollars, only about a million is in paper or digital form.

I regret that if you are due an order. It may be some time until it will be filled... if ever... it now all depends on our actions.

Everyone who has an unfulfilled order or has digital or paper currency should band together for a class action suit and demand redemption. We cannot allow the government to steal our money! Please don’t let this happen!!! Many of you read the articles quoting the government and Federal Reserve officials that the Liberty Dollar was legal. You did nothing wrong. You are legally entitled to your property. Let us use this terrible act to band together and further our goal – to return America to a value based currency.

Please forward this important Alert... so everyone who possess or use the Liberty Dollar is aware of the situation.

Please click HERE to sign up for the class action lawsuit and get your property back!

If the above link does not work you can access the page by copying the following into your web browser. http://www.libertydollar.org/classaction/index.php

Thanks again for your support at this darkest time as the damn government and their dollar sinks to a new low.

Bernard von NotHaus

Monetary Architect

http://www.topofcenter.com/?q=node/24

[ChamberedRound]

I'm concerned that this is a hoax; I haven't found any recent mention of it in the "official" news outlets. However, I did see this USAToday article from awhile ago:
http://www.usatoday.com/money/2006-0...rty-usat_x.htm

[billamj]

Perhaps Article 1 Section 8 would be more appropriate.

To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures;

Whether we like it or not, the Constitution grants the right to oversee monies to the congress. It is within their perview to assign responsibilities specifically assigned to them to others. Might not like it, but it is Constitutional.

[ChamberedRound]

Perhaps Article 1 Section 8 would be more appropriate.


Whether we like it or not, the Constitution grants the right to oversee monies to the congress. It is within their perview to assign responsibilities specifically assigned to them to others. Might not like it, but it is Constitutional.

I have a question: Does the Constitution define what "money" is? In other words, why are Liberty Dollars being categorized as money, and not just another product that is purchased for investment purposes?

[General Geoff]

The constitution grants the right to make money to the government. That is NOT to be construed as the right being stripped from private entities.

[knight0334]

The constitution grants the power or authority to make money to the government. That is NOT to be construed as the right being stripped from private entities.

Let me correct you. The USC grants the government powers and authorities - all rights are reserved to the States and the People.

Amendment IX:
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Sorry.. didn't mean to split hairs. I just been waiting a long time to preach that one. lol

[billamj]

I have a question: Does the Constitution define what "money" is? In other words, why are Liberty Dollars being categorized as money, and not just another product that is purchased for investment purposes?

I would think that "regulate the Value thereof" grants that specifcally to the congress. Additionally Article 1 Section 10, at least as I read it, specifically prohibits the states from doing so.

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

The questionable part, since I can see no Amendment that specifically authorizes the use of anything other than gold or silver coin for a state to use as payment of debt. However snce the "coin of the realm" is the dollar, I think that would be only nominally notable.

[Shawn.L]

I had pre-ordered some Ron Paul copper dollars for stocking stuffers. I got that e-mail about the raid today, and am unsure that I will either get a refund of my money or my copper.
They never really bill the liberty dollar as money money, a transaction is to be considered barter for legal purposes.
I pre-orderd a while ago, and they had sent me a e-mail last friday saying they where being shipped, I really hope mine shipped before the raid. They charge too much for their silver but they do nice mintwork, the pieces are pretty high quality.

[ChamberedRound]

Section 10. No state shall enter into any treaty, alliance, or confederation; grant letters of marque and reprisal; coin money; emit bills of credit; make anything but gold and silver coin a tender in payment of debts; pass any bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law impairing the obligation of contracts, or grant any title of nobility.

Bill,
My problem with your quoting this section of the USC for your argument is the phrase "No state". Private citizens and private industry are not states.

Prior to ratification, every state had it's own currency, and the above was written to unify the states under a single currency by requiring them to defer money-making powers to the federal government. However, this should not preclude private citizens/industry from making a product, currency or otherwise, and basing trade on it. If that were the case, then barter would also be illegal in the US as the objects being traded would be currency in and of themselves.

[LastManOut]

One point that may have been missed here is that since 1919 Congress unconstitutionally gave the power of issuing money to a private corporation the Federal Reserve Bank.

Prior to 1965 (?) many states did issue their own form of currency, blue or black in color, not the green FRNs we use today.

The clause in Article I Section 8 about Congress "regulating" the money had to do with the fact that in 1789 the most popular money used in America was the Spanish dollar with many other "coins" used for commerce.