Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 27
  1. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Lake Ariel, Pennsylvania
    (Wayne County)
    Posts
    314
    Rep Power
    18

    Question Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    I just started working at Gander Mountain in the firearms department and was wondering if anyone could tell me when I sell a firearm at the end of the transaction I have to log on the computer and fill out an E-Bound form with the customers name address and phone number I then get a number that gets recorded on the forms both for long gun and pistol. My question is what database is this information for?

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Mountain Top, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Age
    53
    Posts
    11,944
    Rep Power
    632700

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Sounds like that's an electronic version of the federally required "bound book".

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Age
    53
    Posts
    7,320
    Rep Power
    37697

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by Brick View Post
    Then the only suitable option is to vote ALL of the current judges out of office and make sure they know why it's happening!
    not necessarily. that case happened awhile ago. some of the current judges may not have been on the court at the time. also, the decision may not have been unanimous. some of the current judges may have voted to make the PSP stop maintaining the registry.

    i'm all for voting out any judges who voted to allow the PSP to keep maintaining the registry, but i don't want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". pro-2nd amendment judges on a supreme court are priceless...i don't think we shoudl vote them out just because they are outnumbered.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Lebanon, Pennsylvania
    (Lebanon County)
    Age
    67
    Posts
    3,140
    Rep Power
    21474857

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post

    i'm all for voting out any judges who voted to allow the PSP to keep maintaining the registry, but i don't want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". pro-2nd amendment judges on a supreme court are priceless...i don't think we shoudl vote them out just because they are outnumbered.
    Very well stated. Be an informed voter and vote wisely. You should want to support anyone and everyone who is on your side and try to replace those who oppose your views.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Landenberg, Pennsylvania
    (Chester County)
    Age
    49
    Posts
    1,136
    Rep Power
    8168

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by LittleRedToyota View Post
    not necessarily. that case happened awhile ago. some of the current judges may not have been on the court at the time. also, the decision may not have been unanimous. some of the current judges may have voted to make the PSP stop maintaining the registry.

    i'm all for voting out any judges who voted to allow the PSP to keep maintaining the registry, but i don't want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater". pro-2nd amendment judges on a supreme court are priceless...i don't think we shoudl vote them out just because they are outnumbered.

    Correct.

    Every time I hear someone foaming at the mouth about getting rid of all the judges to send a message, I start grinding my teeth because it's so silly and self-defeating -- it's a temper tantrum.

    Why the hell would you want to vote against a judge who agrees with you?
    The material presented herein is for informational purposes only, is not guaranteed to be correct, complete, or up to date, does not constitute legal advice and does not establish an attorney-client relationship. You should NOT act or rely on any information in this post or e-mail without seeking the advice of an attorney YOU have retained.

    In plain English, while I am an attorney, I'm NOT your attorney, and I'm NOT giving you legal advice.

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
    Posts
    20,076
    Rep Power
    21474874

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Our State Supreme Court Judges are for the most part pro-gun from the cases I read about. Same with the appeals court judges too.

    I think we need to fix the "data-base" with better worded legislation rather than kick a bunch of good guys/gals off the bench.

    When the Jefferson Co Commissioners were fighting in court over what was a "court facility", one of the hearings was on PCN. With exception to one judge on the panel, I'd have to say that they were all animate that carrying a gun was an unquestionable right. I do believe a female judge even quoted out the 2A and Section 21.

    Sure, we may have some judges from Blue areas that may be anti. However those are pretty much confined to the Pittsburgh, Philly and other urban areas. ...the rest of the state is pro-gun, pro-rights, and pro-privacy.

    Picture Pennsylvania:
    You have Pittsburgh on the west, Philly on the east, and Alabama in between.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    In a hole, Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
    Age
    46
    Posts
    563
    Rep Power
    60

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    I have a quick question. I understand that a registry is illegal, I understand the PSP is pretty much keeping one. My question is, why is it so bad? I am just not sure, The way I look at it is, If John Doe buys a gun and after a year decides to use it in a crime and ends up killing someone, ditches the gun somewhere and takes off. Now if they find the gun and link it to the killing, wouldn't a registry help them find out who owned the gun and help find this guy? Is there another way that its done besides a registry? Again I am still new to all of this so I am learning as I go.

    Thanks

    Matt.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Mountain Top, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
    Age
    53
    Posts
    11,944
    Rep Power
    632700

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by Longshot View Post
    I have a quick question. I understand that a registry is illegal, I understand the PSP is pretty much keeping one. My question is, why is it so bad? I am just not sure, The way I look at it is, If John Doe buys a gun and after a year decides to use it in a crime and ends up killing someone, ditches the gun somewhere and takes off. Now if they find the gun and link it to the killing, wouldn't a registry help them find out who owned the gun and help find this guy? Is there another way that its done besides a registry? Again I am still new to all of this so I am learning as I go.

    Thanks

    Matt.
    All that goes out the window when the gun used in the crime was stolen, straw purchased or otherwise untraceable.
    By and large, crooks don't go to the gunshop and buy papered guns to commit crimes with.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
    Age
    42
    Posts
    4,353
    Rep Power
    4350210

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Quote Originally Posted by Rule10b5 View Post
    A lot of folks have been making noise lately about whether PA has gun registration or not, and some confusion exists. D-Fens, notably, has been very helpful in raising the issue for everyone, but folks seem to continue to have questions.

    So, with a nod (and much citation to the 2004 Pa. Supreme Court decision), here is the state of the law in Pa.:

    Section 6111.4 of the UFA prohibits government or law enforcement agencies from creating, maintaining and operating a "registry of firearm ownership."

    but:

    "Under the Firearms Act, every person purchasing a handgun in Pennsylvania from a licensed dealer is required to provide the dealer with identifying information including the purchaser's name, gender, race, social security number, address and date of birth. This information is recorded on a one-page form knows as an "application/record of sale." See 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111(b)(1). The application/record of sale is filled out in triplicate: the original copy is forwarded to the Pennsylvania State Police within 14 days of the sale; one copy is retained by the licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer for a period of 20 years; and the final copy is provided to the purchaser. See id. The Pennsylvania State Police incorporate the information in the application/record of sale into a database of persons who lawfully purchase handguns in Pennsylvania. This database has been maintained by the Pennsylvania State Police since 1943."

    Allegheny County Sportsmen's League v. Rendell, 580 Pa. 149, 152 (Pa. 2004) (emphasis added).

    So, just to clear things up, Pennsylvania has, for the past 60+ years, maintained a database of handgun sales in the Commonwealth.

    By way of background, the ACSL brought suit, alleging that the database constituted an illegal registry (per Section 6111.4).

    Looks like a registry, smells like a registry, must be a registry, right?

    No, said the court. It's not -- it's merely a database of sales. The court concluded that if it were a registry, all persons bringing firearms into the state would be required to submit registration data. The court continued, holding that, in any case, the database wasn't prohibited under 6111.4 because it wasn't regarding all firearms, just handguns.

    Rather tortured logic, but we end up with the situation that:

    Firearms registries are illegal in Pa.
    The state police may retain records of firearms sales.
    Records of sales don't constitute a registry.

    Amazing, huh?

    And despite what the PSP represents when you call them, they can run the serial number of a firearm in a matter of seconds. If an officer during a traffic stop wants to run your gun's serial, he can, and he can find out who the last purchaser was (if the purchase took place in Pa.) in seconds.
    Rule, do you mind if I use parts of this post as the basis for our main website's page on the "not-a-registry"?
    Dan P, Founder & President, Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
    Purchase a Forum SubscriptionBuy some PAFOA MerchandiseHelp PAFOA's Search Engine Ranking


  10. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    south western PA, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
    3,498
    Rep Power
    12565222

    Default Re: Handgun Registry in PA

    Here is a cost answer to your question

    http://acslpa.org/n-legislative/pa_p...egislation.htm

    HB 1161 - Offense of unlawful firearms records; penalty prescribed.

    INTRODUCED BY METCALFE, BAKER, BASTIAN, CAPPELLI, COX,CREIGHTON, CUTLER, J. EVANS, EVERETT, GEIST, GERGELY,GIBBONS, HARRIS, HERSHEY, HESS, HUTCHINSON, M. KELLER, KORTZ,MARSHALL, MUSTIO, RAPP, ROAE, ROHRER, S. H. SMITH, SONNEY,R. STEVENSON, SURRA, CAUSER, SWANGER, DENLINGER, SAYLOR ANDYEWCIC

    This bill prohibits the state police or any other state agency from keeping or maintaining any registry or any type of database of law abiding firearm owner’s purchases. Free people should never have their gun registered and history has shown that registration has always lead to confiscation of firearms, and given rise to tyranny. People should not fear their governments, governments should be fear of their people. A long as this balance of power by of consent to be governed by the people, honesty, fairness and freedom for all is maintained.

    The state police wasted nearly $130 million operating the PICS system, which would have been done at ‘no’ cost to gun owners or the state of Pennsylvania by the National Instant Check system, a part of which is the retention and maintenance of an illegal database of gun owners. How many crimes have the state police solved by the staggering amount of money spent? Conducting the Instant Checks through the state run system has cost Pennsylvania citizens and gun owners dearly.

    1998 Start up costs for the PICS System -- $22,000,000.

    Yearly costs to operate and maintain PICS -- $6,000,000.

    (Total thus far 11 years x $6 million= $66,000,000)

    2007 PICS Upgrade -- $32,000,000

    Total Costs to date -- $126,000,000

    Successfully prosecuted prohibited individuals who tried to buy a gun on average per year--120 - 140

    Wouldn’t the money be much better spent catching and locking criminals up rather than making list of law abiding gun owner’s firearms? See also SB 738 for concurrent senate bill.

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. New handgun for $600.00
    By autorim in forum General
    Replies: 15
    Last Post: December 5th, 2008, 11:34 PM
  2. PA gun Registry...
    By XD45 in forum General
    Replies: 45
    Last Post: November 4th, 2007, 06:18 PM
  3. Handgun
    By Tricia in forum General
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: October 12th, 2007, 10:02 AM
  4. Replies: 3
    Last Post: July 21st, 2007, 05:38 PM
  5. Gun Registry
    By jwg in forum General
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: April 14th, 2007, 11:22 PM

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •