How is the Sales Database not conflicting with 18 Pa.C.S. § 6111 v?

[BimmerJon]

You are not looking at the other chapters that the PSP use to justify keeping the information, as a way to insure payment to the PSP from the FFL dealers for the "service" the Feds would do at no additional charge.

Hence the reason that the PSP won't let someone with a valid PA LTCF permit by pass PICS as prescribed by law.

Read this topics on this subject along with detail info on the PSP vs ACSL lawsuit

http://forum.pafoa.org/1380232-post-8.html

http://forum.pafoa.org/1374704-post-13.html

Wanted to bump this thread because I just read WhiteFeather's post and it is AWESOME-full of interesting information. It also created a question for me:

Under:
18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms

(a) Time and manner of delivery.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser or transferee thereof until 48 hours shall have elapsed from the time of the application for the purchase thereof, and, when delivered, the firearm shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded.
(2) Thirty days after publication in the Pennsylvania Bulletin that the Instantaneous Criminal History Records Check System has been established in accordance with the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (Public Law 103- 159, 18 U.S.C. § 921 et seq.), no seller shall deliver a firearm to the purchaser thereof until the provisions of this section have been satisfied, and, when delivered, the firearm shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded.

Does Section (1) mean that PA used to be a 48 hour wait before purchasing a firearm? When PICS was created (2), section (1) no longer applied? Am I reading that right? So PA, used to have a 48 hour wait on purchase?

It's also VERY interesting that a LTCF holder should be able to bypass a PICS check? Is that correct?
When I buy a firearm, does an FFL run PICS and NICS on me or just PICS?

Thanks

[HiredGoon]

When I buy a firearm, does an FFL run PICS and NICS on me or just PICS?

Thanks

The way I've always heard it is that PICS includes NICS.

[mrjam2jab]

From the PSP Website:

About PICS (Pennsylvania Instant Check System)

The PICS was implemented on July 1, 1998. This state of the art system provides instant access to background records on an individual to determine if the person is eligible to acquire a firearm or a license to carry a firearm. The Instant Check Unit is a call center conducting the background check requests. This responsibility requires ensuring accurate identification of the subject of the background check, evaluation and research of federal, state and local records, comprehensive documentation, and maintaining positive communication with Firearm Dealers and Sheriffs.

Pennsylvania Firearm Dealers and County Sheriffs access the PICS program through a toll free telephone number, which is available for service from 8:00 a.m. until 10:00 p.m. seven days a week, including holidays. If an individual is eligible to acquire a firearm, the PICS background check replaces the former, mandatory five-day waiting period. Operation has shown that approximately 60% of the individuals attempting to purchase a firearm are approved within minutes.

The PICS background check program issues approval or denial determinations. By law, no record information may be disseminated as a result of the background check. If a record is identified on an individual's background check, the call is transferred to an operator. The operator then reviews the record, and if it is not prohibiting, approves the sale. If there is a question as to whether or not the record is prohibiting, the operator may place the file in research for up to 15 days. As soon as the operator has a definite answer, the dealer is called and either given an approval number or advised that the sale is denied and the individual should be given a Pennsylvania Instant Check Challenge Form.

[tl_3237]

<snip>...

It's also VERY interesting that a LTCF holder should be able to bypass a PICS check? Is that correct?


When I buy a firearm, does an FFL run PICS and NICS on me or just PICS?

Thanks

Since 6111(c) requires an FFL/sheriff transfer IAW 6111(b)(3) et al, a PICS check must be performed. The PICS check also encompasses a NICS check.

The exception for LTCFers in 6111(f)(3) only applies to subsection (a) - the delivery of the firearm 'securely wrapped and shall be unloaded'. Normally an LTCF type license would otherwise qualify for NICS exemption under 18 USC 922(t). HOWEVER, since Pa statutes mandate a PICS check, the NICS (a constituent part of the PICS check) cannot be avoided.

[tes151]

Since 6111(c) requires an FFL/sheriff transfer IAW 6111(b)(3) et al, a PICS check must be performed. The PICS check also encompasses a NICS check.

The exception for LTCFers in 6111(f)(3) only applies to subsection (a) - the delivery of the firearm 'securely wrapped and shall be unloaded'. Normally an LTCF type license would otherwise qualify for NICS exemption under 18 USC 922(t). HOWEVER, since Pa statutes mandate a PICS check, the NICS (a constituent part of the PICS check) cannot be avoided.

So basically, all we need to do is have Corbett do away with PICS and the illegal sales database. Shouldn't be too hard, unless Corbett isn't who he made himself out to be while running for governor.

[bluedog46]

it would seem to me any database is a registry. Look at the movie red dawn. that is how the occupiers found out who had guns. There are many communities were the local population could hold their own against an invading force.

[bob2055]

If remember correctly, and I think I do. After the Brady Law was passed and before PICS was set up a person who possessed a valid PA LTCF could purchase a pistol without the waiting period and without the check. I'm like 100% sure I purchased a pistol with my LTCF back then. But when PICS was set up a person had to go through the check even if they had a valid LTCF.

[tsafa]

So basically, all we need to do is have Corbett do away with PICS and the illegal sales database. Shouldn't be too hard, unless Corbett isn't who he made himself out to be while running for governor.

1+

I agree. Corbett should have got rid of this on his first day in office. This is something he can do on his own.

[ImminentDanger]

Is anyone aware of any legislative work being done to specifically amend 18Pa. C.S. § 6111.4 to include the necessary wording to eliminate "any record of any kind, including, but not limited to, a sales records database" ???

Obviously, trusting such matters to be clearly ruled UnConstitutional by our Supremely Compromised Court did not turn out too well.....

Great expectations from 2000....


...

[RandomTask]

If the documentation needs to be destroyed in 72 hours and it is NOT, how does the Supreme Court AGREE with this???

Because the Judiciary is an Arm of Government, and not the impartial balance to power that the lies told to you in school made you believe.