Checkmating RAS against Phila Police

**PhillyGunslinger** · December 21st, 2010, 03:33 PM

Would people open carrying have to carry those dumb Concealed Carry Badges ?
The way the cops are in Philly, they might try to charge you with impersonating an officer with those things ! Really I believe the purpose of them would be in a situation where your holding an attacker at bay with your gun, and you would be able to use it to show the arriving police your the good guy ? In otherwords you show them the badge and they for a second think you may be a cop, this way they don't shoot you.
But then do they charge you with impersonating a LEO ? I never seen the good in those badges other than being a mall ninja.

**bill gray** · December 23rd, 2010, 09:01 AM

I don't like the idea of a badge either. I carry enough stuff already. I do recall a column from a gun rights writer (Massad Ayoob?) who told of a citizen who held a BG at gunpoint with one hand and held his LTCF over his head and kept his hand turning back and forth like a lighthouse. The arriving cops did as you said and held fire until they figured out who this was. With that in mind, I kept my LTCF where I could find it in the wallet without looking and practiced removing it without looking.

On another note re Phila. On another thread from Wisconsin (maybe on opencarry.com or here) I saw an interesting idea for an open carry demonstration. The demonstrators showed up openly carrying holsters on their hips and with a water bottle in it. Whattya gonna get charged with-felony possession of H2O? Might be a useful tactic to get PPD used to holsters on citizens.

**PhillyGunslinger** · December 23rd, 2010, 10:55 AM

Ha, ha, ha, "Hold it right there you, Uhh, could I have a swig ?" That's funny and original ! There's gotta be a way to get open carry in Philly ? It's the only city in the state that gives you a problem about it ! The kicker is it's totally legal but Philly treats it as if it's not. I believe if more citizens are seen OC'ing in the city the lowlifes would think twice before messing with someone. Every city that allows open carry has a low crime rate or at least lower than those that don't ! If people seen a gun as a tool instead of a deadly weapon it would be no different than a carpenter with his tool belt on !

**phillykev** · December 23rd, 2010, 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by PhillyGunslinger

If people seen a gun as a tool instead of a deadly weapon it would be no different than a carpenter with his tool belt on !

In Philly that's RAS to stop them for suspicion of burglary. (half-kidding)

**acosenza2** · December 23rd, 2010, 02:39 PM

I think you have a decent idea here, however I don't know if it will make a difference to the PPD. The PA Supreme Court has already determined that Open Carrying a gun in a holster on your hip is not RAS to stop. I understand that in Philly you need a License to Carry a Firearm in order to OC a firearm, but you also need a license to drive a car and seeing someone drive a car is not RAS for the PPD to pull them over.

The PPD and Philly politicians have a blatant anti-gun agenda and I do not believe OC'ers will stop being harassed in Philly until the "City of the First Class" is removed from the UFA.

**bill gray** · December 24th, 2010, 10:16 AM

As I have said since starting this thread, I am looking to create an attitude change in the PPD based on flak from the DA, the courts and/or civil suits. I am looking to stop the knee jerk reaction to seeing an openly carried firearm as RAS of a crime. Can you see the effect of having a chance to ask a cop on the witness stand "How many times have you encountered a person openly carrying who was NOT legally doing so? RAS requires a perception of the carrier being dangerous. What was there about the carrier that made you see him/her as dangerous? Why did you ask first if they were with law enforcement instead of proning the carrier out (if that questation was asked). The carrier had a document (LTCF copy) attached to the holster and around the neck. Did that strike you as the mark of a violent offender? (if the copy carrying strategy was present)