Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Nesquehoning, Pennsylvania
    (Carbon County)
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    Default transfer of deceased to next of kin

    Hello everyone.
    I have a situation that I cant seem to find any info on .My neighbor wanted me to watch his long guns , seven in all , while he was busy moving out of his ex-wifes house until he got settled some place. This was maybe 5 years ago . Over that period of time he would call and make sure everything was ok if I coulds still store his rifles and he made sure to tell me not to give them to the ex . Well before he could pick his guns up he died in the hospital . I know he was living with a son from a previous relationship for awhile because he said he called me from there once but I never got his name , I didnt expect this guy to die all of a sudden. Now heresmy problem... The ex says the son wants to come by and pick up the guns, she has asked in the past if she could use,borrow, hold onto them in the past and she would make sure they were ok. I just want to make sure they end up where they belong and not be held liable for anything any advice?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    IMHO, they rightfully belong to the son. So long as he's 18, they should go straight to him. If he isn't 18, then the mother should get them and hold on to them until he is of age. If he isn't 18, but close to it - see if you can stall things until he is of age.

    You're free and clear so long as either two are legal to own a longgun. Since there is no paperwork for longguns, you just hand them over. No liabilities that I can think of if you have no reason to believe he is prohibited from owning one or have knowledge that he'll use it in a crime.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Luzerne County, Pennsylvania
    (Luzerne County)
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    There is no "transfer" of rifles or shotguns.

    Did he acquire the rifles while married to the ex? If he did, she is entitled to them (community property of a marriage) unless she gave them up as part of the divorce settlement.

    If she didn't give up the rifles, then the son could be in a legal battle for the rifles if she wants them too.

    If he was living with a son, why didn't he store or give the guns to him??

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
    Did he acquire the rifles while married to the ex? If he did, she is entitled to them (community property of a marriage) unless she gave them up as part of the divorce settlement.
    Along this line of thought. Did this man have a will?

    If so, was it updated after the divorce? If not, the ex might be the heir to the estate.

    Just a couple of other questions that may need to be asked.

    Jack

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Gibsonia, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
    Posts
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    Well, from person to person long guns don't require FFL paperwork transfers. All pistols do. With pistols you have to go to an FFL dealer for transfer. But when a deceased person is involved the next of kin is entitled to the firearms (pistols or long guns with no paperwork involved) as long as he or she doesn't have a criminal back ground. Also there is no transfer paperwork needed for either pistols or long guns from husband to wife,wife to husband, parent to child or grandparent to grandchild as long as he or she is old enough to own a firearm. If he or she does it is up to them to get rid of the firearms.But if I was you I would make a copy the make, model and serial# of all of the firearms down on a piece of paper explaining what happened and have the person date and sign it when they get picked up.
    Tom

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
    Posts
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    No, no, STOP whatever you were thinking of doing.

    The guns belong to the estate. You have a bailment of them, you are responsible for them until you hand them over to the estate.

    With or without a Will, every dead person leaves an estate, even if it's in debt. If the "widow" or ex-wife is the Executrix or Administratrix, she will have paperwork from the county Register of Wills to prove it. Whoever gets appointed will have proof of that appointment. Handing the guns over to the proper legal representative of the estate (and getting a detailed receipt) covers your ass. Handing them over to the first person who asks for them does NOT protect you.

    Worst case, you hand them over to the son, then a week later the Executor stops by and asks for them. You have unlawfully converted the Estate property. Bad idea.

    When someone shows you evidence that they are the legal representative of the Estate (either with Short Certificates, or with the full appointment including the County stamp and signatures), then you can hand over property that belongs to the Estate. For all you know, the guy left the guns to his cousin in a Will.

    It's not up to you to decide who gets his guns. The Estate gets them. Then the Estate representative decides, based on the Will or on the rules of intestacy.

    As for what to do with long guns, you don't violate the UFA if you transfer them to a non-prohibited person age 18 or older. Whether you violate other laws depends on what I wrote above.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    If she is truly an "ex" via divorce, and if there is no will or executor - doesn't the heirs become executors by default?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Bucks, Pennsylvania
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    Quote Originally Posted by knight0334 View Post
    If she is truly an "ex" via divorce, and if there is no will or executor - doesn't the heirs become executors by default?
    No. The next of kin are first in line to be ELIGIBLE to be administrators, but they have to apply and be appointed.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Brookville, Pennsylvania
    (Jefferson County)
    Age
    51
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    No. The next of kin are first in line to be ELIGIBLE to be administrators, but they have to apply and be appointed.
    Remind me not to die in PA.. lol

    I think I'll die somewhere that the common practice of Heir Apparent is still honored and not have some county official decide who is executor.

    Makes me glad that Teeny passed away in WV. Everything that didn't have my name on it went to her son - even without a will.. ...not her grubby siblings that were fighting over things before she took her last breath.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Cherry Tree, Pennsylvania
    (Indiana County)
    Age
    76
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    Default Re: transfer of deceased to next of kin

    Remind me not to die in PA ...
    It doesn't matter in what State you die/pass away/become worm food/etc., the long guns belong to the estate. Been there, done that. No, not died, but been an Executor (a royal pain in the you-know-what).

    Find out who the Executor/Executrix of the estate is, and give them the long guns. Verbal instructions from the deceased are almost worth the paper they're printed on. The Executor/Executrix will have to comply with the law when disposing of the guns.

    Relatives fighting over the estate before the deceased is deceased? Gee, sounds like Westylvania.

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