I looked at a Saiga 12 gauge Shotgun...

[Neko456]

I looked at a Saiga 12 gauge Shotgun semi auto it was a long way from the Tormax upgrade displayed here. It was a 4 shot mag fed Ak designed shotgun for $599. What is the reliability rating on these guns? What are the from the factory defects, mag or gas chamber? How much is the 20 round drum? And does it require the fine tuning to work reliabiliy with 3rd party drum or extended magazines.

I don't know about you but for $600 I expect some quality and reliability.

[beefcakeb0]

you mean tromix? I love em....maybe some research is due for you...some work flawlessly out of the box, and some are 'vodka specials'

[ungawa]

I *believe* it is illegal to use drums on most Saigas right out of the box. I think they are imported as "sporting firearms" and have magazine restrictions until you change out a number of foreign parts with American parts. I *think* that restriction is 5 round mag.

It's not something I know much about, hopefully someone will clarify or you can look into it yourself.

My friend has one and it works great but stovepipes on the last round every time regardless of mag.

[Coils]

One thing you have to look into also is how many semi auto shotguns are on the market in the 500-600 range that will work with light loads out of the box, then how many of those are fed using a box magazine.
If you can deal with the mag hanging down, it does make for quick reloads, think about loading 5 rounds in just a few motions or loading 5 into a tube individually.


The main issue that have come up with them is some of the 19" barreled ones didn't have the gas ports right and they would short stroke with light loads. But I think this was a short lived problem and it doesn't seem to be mentioned much anymore.

As ungawa mentioned, if you want to use any mags that are over 5 rounds (and yes the stock mag is 5) you need to change out a few parts for US made ones. The parts count is five and if you go with a stick mag you need to change two or more parts, the mag body, follower and base plate count as three. I don't know how the drum would add up, I see a mag body and follower, don't know if the back plate would be classed as a base plate or not.

And if you need to "fine tune" a firearm to work with a mag, stay away from that brand mag.
Most mags only need (if anything at all) is a few passes with a file to get them to seat fully in the mag well.

The drums are a nice novelty item, they do work but are bulky and heavy.
MD Arms makes a nice drum (20 round) and they are priced right around 100-120. ProMag brought two out recently, a 12 & 20 round, haven't heard any real complaints yet other then the back cover pops off if dropped loaded

For mags you can get 5, 10, 12 round. The 10 are made by ProMag & AGP. The 12 are by SureFire and can be cut down to different capacities, some people have experienced cracks with the 12 rounders when firing hot loads.
There's companies still working on mags for these, one is working on a steel one and another is trying to do a double stack.

[T3h H4t]

Out of all the conversions I have ever done, I have had one shotgun which did not have the correct number of ports, i have only had five which has gas block which were misaligned enough to cause a problem. Break them in with buck or slugs, than it will run what you need it to.

Remember, no Winchester Universal. Buy Federal 1 ounce or 1 1/8 ounce it is the same price at wally world, and runs in these Saigas like a champ.

You cannot legally use a Mag over 5 rounds.

These shotguns are extremely reliable, they just need to be broken in, and you need to use the correct ammo. $600 is a little heavy for an unconverted Saiga, that being said the price is going to be going back up, the Russians are raising their pricing.