Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
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    Lancaster, Pennsylvania
    (Lancaster County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    Crazee,
    I understand your frustration regarding the ambiguous signage at the PGC range. I would recommend you contact the PGC to get an answer to your question, rather than looking for opinions on a public forum.
    PGC Contact Link
    It doesn't seem like you are getting the answer you are looking for here.

    Let us know what "official" answer they give you.

  2. #12
    Join Date
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    Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazee View Post
    Sorry but that doesn't answer my question.. The range in question has two signs.. Top sign reads PISTOL RANGE, bottom sign reads SIGHTING RANGE.. So is it a pistol sighting range or does anything go? Also this range has benches just like the one in Archbald.. Are you saying because they don't have roofs they are not designated shooting lines?? Also not sure if you are saying you can shoot bird shot at the rifle range in Archbald but I know that not to be true..The guy before me was shooting bird shot at the 50 yard line and I almost got the ticket because I was sighting in my shotgun and he hadn't cleaned up his shell casings..
    If it says pistol range, it's a pistol range. In this case, for pistol sighting. No rifles according to the PGC's own rules.

    And no, the absence of a roof doesn't mean that there is no designated firing line, but structures such as that demonstrate an intended firing line such as the 100 yard and 200 yard target ranges in Archbald. Whether or not they enforce it is up to them.

    In the case of the close range targets in archbald, there are no permanent shooting benches, no canopy, no nothing but temporary and movable wooden planks nailed together as makeshift gear tables.

    And no, I'm not advocating using birdshot on the ranges, except for areas designed for claybird shooting. You will most definitely get fined for shooting any kind of scattershot (bird or buck) at the backstop. I'm just saying that I don't know that it's technically against their regulations. Section (b) no. 7 states that no claybird shooting except for designated claybird areas, but that doesn't necessarily mean shotguns are off limits for ranges with no firearm designation. I do KNOW that they will fine you for it regardless.

    And...

    I understand your frustration regarding the ambiguous signage at the PGC range. I would recommend you contact the PGC to get an answer to your question, rather than looking for opinions on a public forum.
    PGC Contact Link
    It doesn't seem like you are getting the answer you are looking for here.

    Let us know what "official" answer they give you.
    I'm not giving out "opinions" here. These are the regulations outlined by the PGC. The "official" answer that the PGC will give is not necessarily what their own regulations are, but the "regulations" they will enforce, real or make believe. For instance, I know that you may get fined for shooting your AR15 on the non-designated "handgun" range in Archbald. I've heard of it happening on multiple occasions, but that's just the result of a PGC officer not knowing the range regulations and the individual being fined not knowing any better than to fight it in court, and so these injustices will continue until someone finally calls the PGC out on their errors.
    Last edited by C27433; October 24th, 2010 at 08:43 PM. Reason: typo

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
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    Meisertown (Henryville), Pennsylvania
    (Monroe County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazee View Post
    Sorry but that doesn't answer my question.. The range in question has two signs.. Top sign reads PISTOL RANGE, bottom sign reads SIGHTING RANGE.. So is it a pistol sighting range or does anything go? Also this range has benches just like the one in Archbald.. Are you saying because they don't have roofs they are not designated shooting lines?? Also not sure if you are saying you can shoot bird shot at the rifle range in Archbald but I know that not to be true..The guy before me was shooting bird shot at the 50 yard line and I almost got the ticket because I was sighting in my shotgun and he hadn't cleaned up his shell casings..
    i can't speak for the signage. the range i go to has no signs limiting the type of weapon to be used (only the ammo), and both long gun and hand gun shooters use both the long range section (50/100) and the short range (10/25) freely, and i have never heard a peep from the PGC.

    the shooting benches are indeed the "designated shooting line," regardless of roofs or other features.

    You may use shotguns with slugs at the pistol and rifle ranges, but may NOT use any sort of "multiple projectile ammunition," aka shot shells, unless you are at a range specifically designated for it by the PGC (clay pigeon range; something i wish the tobyhanna range had.)
    ONE TO THE HEAD!!!!

  4. #14
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    Sep 2010
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    Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    I get the feeling I wasn't understood properly, earlier. Maybe I'm wrong.

    If you walk onto a range, never having been there, and you are trying to determine where the firing line is, seeing a line of shooting benches bolted into a concrete slab, covered with a roof.... then clearly you know you are looking at the designated firing line.

    What becomes a problem is when the range has no clearly designated area to shoot from, as in Archbald. What you have are a couple of rickety tables that you can pick up and move to where you would like. There is no firing line. The firing line becomes wherever someone chooses to begin shooting from, and everyone else on the range either needs to shoot from that distance as well or wait there turn to establish a new line.

    The OP had mentioned that there were shooting benches at the pistol range he had visited, and though I have not visited that range, I would assume it was clear to anyone visiting that the benches designated the established line of fire. Since such a line had been designated with features such as shooting benches, whether or not there were other "hints" as well, such as the aforementioned roofing often built over firing lines to protect you from the elements, it would be against range regulations to discharge your firearm anywhere in front of the shooting benches.

    Really, it's just a matter of common sense. There are no signs that say "Shooting line here", at least at the ranges I've visited. It's just a matter of common sense. Are there permanent, clearly erected structures (poured concrete, benches, and/or roofs) that make it clear where the firing line is? If yes, then it's obvious what this designates and you must shoot from this line. If you have none of these features on the range, then there is no established line of fire and you are free to establish your own, as long as you do so safely, obviously.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Duncannon, Pennsylvania
    (Perry County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    More than likely where you were is both. The 25yd range is generally considered a pistol range, hence the pistol range sign. However the 25yd range can also be used for rifles as it is common practice to first sight a new scope at 25yds because it is easier to make adjustments at the shorter distance. Once dialed in at 25yds you generally move to the 100yd line to finish sighting in your rifle.

    At the Stoney Creek range in Dauphin county there is a 100yd range and a 25yd range. The way I described above is how it is set up.

    The Carlisle Springs range has 2 separate ranges, 1 for pistols and 1 for rifles, shotguns, muzzle-loaders, and hunting pistols if you choose.

    The pistol range has narrow benches that are suited for placing a box of ammo and your range bag on and are about belly button high. They are completely unsuitable for long gun use(in reference to the common practice of shooting off of the bench with sandbags etc.). They have target backers at 10, 25 and 50 yards.

    The rifle range has a "sighting range" with backers at 50 and 100 yards. It then has a berm and a 200 and 300 yard range.

    The range you describe seems to be set up like Stoney Creek and therefore both ranges are set up for pistols and long guns.

    Hope this helps.
    It's all fun and games, til someone shoots your bobber!

  6. #16
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    Scranton, Pennsylvania
    (Lackawanna County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    It would be fantastic if there were actually a standard across the commonwealth. Every PGC range exists for the same purpose, so why not have the same setup and postings at each?

    It throws a lot of people for a loop to step onto a range and read regulations talking about range designations and then looking around and not finding them on the range they're on, or finding other signage that was not mentioned in the regulations.

  7. #17
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    Jan 2013
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    Madison, Indiana
    (Indiana County)
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    Default Re: Pistol range rules

    Nice topic ..
    I am also a Pistol lover to keep with us

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