Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    I had a good conversation with the Sheriff of Wayne county today.

    He will sign of on Form 1 & 4's.
    He likes to do his own BR checks just to be sure.
    Of course the fed still has to do theirs too.
    He does not charge for them and he is a very fair guy & he made the point very clear he is pro gun.
    The last Sheriff they had wouldn't sign off as I understand it.

    Wayne County Sheriff’s Department
    Courthouse Annex
    925 Court St.
    Honesdale PA, 18431
    (570)253-2641

    Mark Steelman, Sheriff

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    Quote Originally Posted by vanderjack View Post
    I had a good conversation with the Sheriff of Wayne county today.

    He will sign of on Form 1 & 4's.
    He likes to do his own BR checks just to be sure.
    Of course the fed still has to do theirs too.
    He does not charge for them and he is a very fair guy & he made the point very clear he is pro gun.
    The last Sheriff they had wouldn't sign off as I understand it.

    Wayne County Sheriff’s Department
    Courthouse Annex
    925 Court St.
    Honesdale PA, 18431
    (570)253-2641

    Mark Steelman, Sheriff
    I have several concerns.

    Here's his website.
    http://www.co.wayne.pa.us/?pageid=12

    Here's the problems in how he handles LTCF applications:
    1) he requires an unnecessary local police check without any actual authority to require it
    2) he places extra requirements upon references beyond the simple "not family members" (don't get me started on the fact that by law references aren't even required at all)
    3) his fee system is strange, and doesn't follow 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 (subsection (h)(5) "The fee is payable to the sheriff to whom the application is submitted and is payable at the time of application for the license.")

    Thank you for posting this thread, as I had not noticed the problems in your county before and will be adding them to the extensive report I've already compiled on this subject.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    Quote Originally Posted by IronSight View Post
    I have several concerns.

    Here's his website.
    http://www.co.wayne.pa.us/?pageid=12

    Here's the problems in how he handles LTCF applications:
    1) he requires an unnecessary local police check without any actual authority to require it
    2) he places extra requirements upon references beyond the simple "not family members" (don't get me started on the fact that by law references aren't even required at all)
    3) his fee system is strange, and doesn't follow 18 Pa.C.S. § 6109 (subsection (h)(5) "The fee is payable to the sheriff to whom the application is submitted and is payable at the time of application for the license.")

    Thank you for posting this thread, as I had not noticed the problems in your county before and will be adding them to the extensive report I've already compiled on this subject.
    Ok you're right about him adding his own back round check, but.
    He is not violating the law by requesting you submit to it either.
    He can at will refuse to sign a form 1 or 4 and there is nothing you can do if he does.
    You submitting to his back round check is voluntary, if you don't want it done he doesn't have to sign.
    On the other hand the NFA has missed more than a few domestic violence arrests since they were not in the federal system.
    The way Sheriffs do these they run it through the county data base and if the guy was arrested for DV it shows up.
    The Sheriff is doing what he feels is right to protect himself, the county and still signing off.
    There are more than a few sheriffs that won't sign at all.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    It looks like they are tacking on the $5.00 fee that they are supposed to remit.

    (ii) An additional temporary fee of $5 shall be remitted by the sheriff to the Firearms License to Carry Modernization Account

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    The fee max I always thought was $20.00
    The extra $5.00 amounts to a $1.00 a year, who really cares about a dollar?
    If it helps out the county?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    I don't where you think he doesn't have the authority to do the back round checks, it's mandated that he does them in the state statute.

    (d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.--The sheriff to whom the application is made shall:
    (1) investigate the applicant's record of criminal conviction;
    (2) investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;
    (3) investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety;
    (4) investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms); and
    (5) conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency and mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), receive a unique approval number for that inquiry and record the date and number on the application.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    can someone please tell me what form 1 and form 4 have to deal with?

    because as far as i know:

    the sherriff did my background check for my LTCF, i got it mailed to me 3 days after i applied
    the federal govt only gets involved in background checks for a form 3 weapon such as a sbr, sbs, grenade launcher etc.

    correct me if im wrong...
    *confused*

    EDIT: i did my own research , and ok form 1 and 4 are also atf forms, but what do eithr have to do with a LTCF? i just remember a single form up here in susquehanna county
    like this in wayne county: http://www.co.wayne.pa.us/files/sp4-127.pdf

    so.. again i ask what does form 1 or 4 have to do with a LTCF? Ironsight said he had a problem with how the sherriff handled the LTCF application process, when in fact he dislikes the way the sherriff handles ATF applications.
    Last edited by SpringFieldTactical; November 19th, 2010 at 08:03 AM.
    Springfield XD9 5" tactical

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    Quote Originally Posted by vanderjack View Post
    The fee max I always thought was $20.00
    The extra $5.00 amounts to a $1.00 a year, who really cares about a dollar?
    If it helps out the county?
    Right, who cares about the law being followed or not.

    You'll notice I didn't say he was overcharging, I pointed out that his fee collection was off from the way the statute describes it should be.

    Quote Originally Posted by vanderjack View Post
    I don't where you think he doesn't have the authority to do the back round checks, it's mandated that he does them in the state statute.

    (d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.--The sheriff to whom the application is made shall:
    (1) investigate the applicant's record of criminal conviction;
    (2) investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;
    (3) investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety;
    (4) investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms); and
    (5) conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency and mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), receive a unique approval number for that inquiry and record the date and number on the application.
    See the bold above; there's no authority in 6109 for him to delay your application for a local police check on top of the checks through 6111. Granted, he can conduct the checks if he wants to but he has no authority to require YOU to do anything other than apply as normal; he doesn't have the authority to require you to complete the extra forms he wants.


    Quote Originally Posted by vanderjack View Post
    Ok you're right about him adding his own back round check, but.
    He is not violating the law by requesting you submit to it either.
    He can at will refuse to sign a form 1 or 4 and there is nothing you can do if he does.
    You submitting to his back round check is voluntary, if you don't want it done he doesn't have to sign.
    On the other hand the NFA has missed more than a few domestic violence arrests since they were not in the federal system.
    The way Sheriffs do these they run it through the county data base and if the guy was arrested for DV it shows up.
    The Sheriff is doing what he feels is right to protect himself, the county and still signing off.
    There are more than a few sheriffs that won't sign at all.
    Again, you're talking about forms 1 & 4, I'm talking about problems with the LTCF. That's the difference. He's not really "pro second"; he's just better than others when it comes to those forms. He has other problems on gun areas that I pointed out.

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringFieldTactical View Post
    can someone please tell me what form 1 and form 4 have to deal with?

    because as far as i know:

    the sherriff did my background check for my LTCF, i got it mailed to me 3 days after i applied
    the federal govt only gets involved in background checks for a form 3 weapon such as a sbr, sbs, grenade launcher etc.

    correct me if im wrong...
    *confused*

    EDIT: i did my own research , and ok form 1 and 4 are also atf forms, but what do eithr have to do with a LTCF? i just remember a single form up here in susquehanna county
    like this in wayne county: http://www.co.wayne.pa.us/files/sp4-127.pdf

    so.. again i ask what does form 1 or 4 have to do with a LTCF? Ironsight said he had a problem with how the sherriff handled the LTCF application process, when in fact he dislikes the way the sherriff handles ATF applications.
    I have no problem with how he handles ATF applications, I have a problem with how he handles LTCF applications. Does that clear it up for you?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    Quote Originally Posted by SpringFieldTactical View Post
    can someone please tell me what form 1 and form 4 have to deal with?

    because as far as i know:

    the sherriff did my background check for my LTCF, i got it mailed to me 3 days after i applied
    the federal govt only gets involved in background checks for a form 3 weapon such as a sbr, sbs, grenade launcher etc.

    correct me if im wrong...
    *confused*

    EDIT: i did my own research , and ok form 1 and 4 are also atf forms, but what do eithr have to do with a LTCF? i just remember a single form up here in susquehanna county
    like this in wayne county: http://www.co.wayne.pa.us/files/sp4-127.pdf

    so.. again i ask what does form 1 or 4 have to do with a LTCF? Ironsight said he had a problem with how the sherriff handled the LTCF application process, when in fact he dislikes the way the sherriff handles ATF applications.
    OK, going back to the top, what does the LTCF have to do with getting form
    1's and 4's signed? The original post stated the Sheriff was willing to sign NFA forms.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Wayne County Sheriff Is Pro Second

    Quote Originally Posted by Hawkeye54 View Post
    OK, going back to the top, what does the LTCF have to do with getting form
    1's and 4's signed? The original post stated the Sheriff was willing to sign NFA forms.
    Look at the thread title, then look at the OP. If the Sheriff is "pro gun" one would think the LTCF issues wouldn't be happening, no?

    Do you honestly think that praise for a Sheriff on one issue can't be coupled with criticism on another?

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