Answering anti-gun newspaper pieces

[bill gray]

The Pocono Record published an article on Sept. 28 that was a hit piece based on the MAIG nonsense. "Soft on gun" States are the source of crime guns traced by police in "good" states etc. I wrote a letter to the editor noting the fact that guns are traced for many reasons and not necessarily involving crimes (e.g. car stops). I also addressed the theme that gun violence has to be stopped and that guns are, by definition, bad. They published it on Oct. 8 on page A7 under the heading "Gun violence is not a bad thing." One friend saw it and complimented me on it.
I hope that many Poc Rec readers also read the original article and had a bad taste in their mouths. We pro-gunners need to react to those kinds of articles and not let them go unanswered. People will accept the nonsense if it is not countered in a calm and logical manner. Those readers are often voters and can call and write their elected officials. We must not let the public and those officials hear only one side of the story. (Note that, in the original story, there is not a single effort to cover the positive and legal uses of guns.)
Use the press or it will be used against us!

[MischaBurns]

link please? to both your response, and the original argument, if you can find it.

ETA: and, as Curmudgeon noticed, welcome to PAFOA...lurker

[Curmudgeon]

LOL... 1st post in over 3 1/2 years of lurking... awesome! Welcome to PAFOA?

[bill gray]

Correction my original post. My letter was published under the title "Gun violence is not always a bad thing."
I am afraid I am somewhat computer illiterate. I write but I do not attach. I can find the pieces but I am lost from there. Feel free to find and attach the pieces for me with my thanks to help the discussion along. At the Pocono Record site search "Mayors against guns." The 9-10 piece is a few items down (after a very similar 2008 article). My letter can be searched on the same site using search words "Gun violence is not always a bad thing."

[MischaBurns]

ah. i believe these are the articles, correct me if i am wrong, Bill.

Bill's letter: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbc...EWS04/10080339

Gun violence is not always a bad thing

October 08, 2010

Editor, the Record:

Your front page article of Sept. 28 was taken directly from the Mayors Against Illegal Guns' "misinformation" pages. Guns are traced by the BATFE at the request of police agencies for a lot of reasons. They often are not involved in any crime. The federal government has warned MAIG that this claim is a misuse of the statistics. The other theme that runs through your article is that "gun violence" is always a bad thing. Is it bad if a senior citizen sends a home invader packing? Is is bad if a woman fights off an attacker? Is it evil "gun violence" if a police officer has to fire on a criminal for good cause? And is it "gun violence" when you call 911 and people with guns (the police) respond? These are examples of gun violence that are not crimes. Guns in the hands of good people save lives. Can things be stolen and/or misused? Yes. Are you going to ban cars and baseball bats? Probably not and they are not protected by the Constitution as amended plus two recent Supreme Court decisions. Does the absence of guns create a utopia? Check out the crime stats for Washington, D.C., New York City and Chicago for a hint.

BILL GRAY

Brodheadsville

The Article he was responding to, I think: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbc...8/NEWS/9280335

By Andrew Scott
Pocono Record Writer
September 28, 2010

A national report ranks Pennsylvania as seventh out of the top 10 states to export so-called "crime guns" in 2009 and concludes that some of the state's loose gun control laws are partly to blame.

The report released Monday by Mayors Against Illegal Guns analyzed data from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives and found Pennsylvania among the top states that provided guns used in the commission of a crime within two years after their sale. The ranking was up two notches from previous studies in 2008, 2007 and 2006, when the state ranked ninth.

In the rankings last year, the state was found to have been the source of 1,777 guns used in crimes ranging from robbery to murder. The data showed, for instance, that Pennsylvania was the source of 397 guns used in crimes in New Jersey and 364 guns in New York. That meant Pennsylvania was the No. 1 and No. 4 source, respectively, for crime guns in those states.

However, those findings are misleading when the analysis drilled deeper and put the figures into a larger context. When controlled for population — measuring the number of exported guns per 100,000 people — Pennsylvania ranked 30th, with a crime gun-to-population ratio of 14.1 percent, according to the report.

"I haven't yet taken a look at the report myself, but the figures sound very believable," said Stroudsburg Mayor Charlie Baughman, Monroe County's only listed member of Mayors Against Illegal Guns.

States with higher crime-gun export rates have more relaxed gun laws, the report said, suggesting that "criminals and gun traffickers may favor certain states as the sources of guns."

For example, in states that do not require background checks for handgun sales at gun shows, the crime-gun export rate was two-and-a-half times as much as the rate in states that do require such checks.

"We're near New York City, a high-crime area in a state with gun laws more restrictive than ours, so common sense tells you criminals are more likely to try and get guns here as opposed to there," said manager Tom Setler of Dunkelberger's Sports Outfitter, which sells guns in Stroudsburg.

Baughman agreed that the problem lies not with those stores selling guns legally, but with criminals getting those guns after they're sold.

"I can't speak for what happens at gun shows, where there may or may not be people selling guns out of car trunks, but I can tell you that we here are very strict about following the rules and selling guns legally," Setler said. "We do thorough background checks on people looking to buy guns from us."

The report cited loopholes in Pennsylvania's gun control laws and said adoption of stricter rules would reduce the exportation of crime guns. The report noted, for instance, that the state does not require that lost or stolen guns be reported.

"If you're looking to buy a gun from us, we ask you if you're buying it for yourself or as a gift for a family member living in this state," Setler said. "Family members in this case don't include cousins or in-laws. If you tell us you're not buying the gun for yourself or as a gift for a family member living in the state, we terminate the sale right there.

"Now, if you tell us you are and we sell you the gun and police later find that gun involved in a crime, that's on you," Setler said. "Police will trace the gun back to us and find we sold it to you legally, so then you or someone else will have to explain how that gun came to be involved in a crime."

Setler added that the only legal way in Pennsylvania for a buyer to transfer ownership of a gun to someone else is through a gun store. This applies to only handguns — not rifles or shotguns, which can be sold through other channels because they're far less frequently involved in crimes, he said.

Mayors Against Illegal Guns is headed by mayors Michael Bloomberg of New York City and Thomas Menino of Boston. Bloomberg in May 2006 sued Dunkelberger's and 14 other gun stores in four other states for alleged illegal gun sales to undercover investigators conducting a sting operation.

Dunkelberger's, which said it never sold any guns illegally, later settled and allowed authorities to closely monitor the store. There have been no further allegations since then, Setler said.

News about the lawsuit and Monday's report enraged Pennsylvania's pro-gun residents.

"They shouldn't be going after us law-abiding citizens who are exercising our constitutional right to own guns legally," said James Lemoncelli of Peckville, former northeast regional director of the Pennsylvania Rifle and Pistol Association. "They shouldn't be going after the legitimate gun dealers. They should be going after the criminals."

Baughman agreed.

"I can't think of anyone who doesn't oppose illegal guns," he said. "Our relatively close proximity to New York causes focus on the issue to intensify in our area, and businesses like Dunkelberger's, which plays by the rules, unfortunately get caught up in that focus."

Another article from a day earlier, similar: http://www.poconorecord.com/apps/pbc...WS90/100929796

Report: Pa. one of 10 states that sell half of imported crime guns

September 27, 2010

WASHINGTON (AP) — Nearly half of the guns that crossed state lines and were used in crimes in 2009 were sold in just 10 states, according to a report being released Monday by a mayors' group.

Those states accounted for nearly 21,000 guns connected to crimes in other states, said the survey by Mayors Against Illegal Guns, an association of more than 500 mayors led by New York's Michael Bloomberg and Boston's Thomas Menino.

The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives traced more than 145,000 guns used in crimes in 2009 and found that more than 43,000 of those weapons were sold in other states.

Forty-nine percent of those guns were sold in Georgia, Florida, Virginia, Texas, Indiana, Ohio, Pennsylvania, North Carolina, California or Arizona.

States were also ranked by the number of crime guns exported per 100,000 inhabitants. Mississippi led that list, followed by West Virginia, Kentucky, Alaska, Alabama, South Carolina, Virginia, Indiana, Nevada and Georgia.

Those states, the report said, have more relaxed gun laws, suggesting that "criminals and gun traffickers may favor certain states as the sources of guns."

For example, in states that do not require background checks for handgun sales at gun shows, the crime-gun export rate was two-and-a-half times as much as the rate in states that do require such checks.

[bill gray]

Thems the ones MischaBurns. Thank you for taking up my slack. What I was trying to get across is that we must not allow those kinds of articles to appear without them being answered. Maybe editors who keep being handed their heads will rediscover the concept of balance.

[tsafa]

I wrote a letter to the editor noting the fact that guns are traced for many reasons and not necessarily involving crimes (e.g. car stops).

Thanks for bringing to my attention the fact that a lot of those gun traces are related to minor traffic stops. I had not considered previously that those traces are not related to REAL crimes... but rather enforcement of unconstitutional local laws. How are they unconstitutional??? The states are not suppose to interfere with interstate commerce. Preventing traveling business-people from being able to defend themselves is interfering with interstate commerce.

[bill gray]

Tsafa Thanks for the pat on the back. David Corea recently wrote a piece on eTrace (computer check available to LEOs) and crime gun stats that gives even more examples; (examiner.com, "Not all 'crime guns' have been used in crimes," 10-13-10) It references a statement from a retired police commander that all guns that come into the possession (no matter how short a time) of police and are run are reported as crime guns. The FBI definition includes any gun that is "...taken into police custody..." Another recent article (can't find it) made the point that guns taken in a gun buy-backs are run and therefore are included in the crime gun stats. I supose the guns in the law abiding hands of the victims at the Dickson City Diner are now included since their serial numbers were run. That ex-police commander says that "eTrace is a fraud." Sorry I can't link to the story but as I said before, I am somewhat computer illiterate. Someday I will shuffle into the 21st century. Until then, I have to depend on the charity of more technically oriented computer users. I would appreciate it if some kind soul would post the link to the story or stories mentioned. This material is great ammo in any argument re crime gun stats.