Another Upper Merion Encounter...mixed encounter

[marinakorp]

So, Sat am again, went to the bagelicious with my daughter for our customary breakfast...I was OC as I frequently do...uneventful as usual.

We proceed to the Farmers Market located at the Upper Merion Township building Parking lot.

I get my coffee, buy some artisan bread, whole milk milk-shake (etc). While waiting for my daughter to have her face painted, I hear the tell tale... "SIR! SIR" over my left shoulder about 12 feet or so away.

I continue to engage my daughter in conversation, commenting on how still she is sitting for the artist painting the Turquoise and Pink butterfly on her face, and ignore the contined and repeated attempts to disengage me from my conversations.

So one of UM's finest decides to close the distance and gets within personal space in a fairly loud manner (similar in tone and volume as he was shouting "SIR!" from a dozen feet aqway, and yet was only 3 feet away now).

UMPD: Show Me your permit

ME: I respond in roughly the equal volume, maybe slightly lower, as I did not know if the officer had a hearing problem and was speaking louder than normal

Officer....you know as well as I do, one is not required while on foot.

(UMPD facial reactions were priceless....rolling of eyes, disgusted look, etc)

UMPD: In a normal tone of voice now ...
You think something is going to happen at a Farmers market...with kids around...(didn't wait for a response to question)... Show me your license..

ME: I am not required to show you my license, I am only required to identify myself to you. (again with the strained facial expressions... felt like if we were in a dark street he woulda exploded!)

My response to the officer must have taken the people around me back a bit... you could hear the gasp and almost snicker from the locals, this kinda pissed him off a little more...

UMPD:Where do you live....

ME: Pennsylvania, My name is "marinakorp" ... I spelled slowly, clearly and using "M" as in Mary and "N" as in Nancy wherever appropriate.

UMPD: you gonna give me your birthdate?

ME: I have identified my self to you and have fulfilled my obligation, now if you don't mind, I would like to get back to enjoying my daughters company. as I gestured towards my daughter having her face painted only a few feet away.

UMPD: Turned and walked towards his cruiser in a huff... filling out paperwork, checking his SCMODS no doubt.

A second vehicle showed, I stayed where I was with my daughter, finished my coffee, and enjoyed my daughters company. officer 1 spoke to officer 2 (probably supervisor) and returned to vehicle and both drove off.

We stayed at the Farmers Markert for a little while longer, they had a old fashion wool / yarn spinning and loom demonstration that held our attention for a little while, and off to the playground for some rock climbing and other assorted 6 year old frivolity.

[ROCK-IT3]

Rep to you. If I had it to do over again I would not have given my DOB in a similar situation. Still a bit PO'd that I gave in, but I felt a DC charge coming on.

Anyway, I hope you had a good day with your daughter, without anymore harrassment.

[BimmerJon]

IANAL and might be wrong but PA is NOT a stop and identify state.

You didn't have to give that officer anything, including your name.

Frankly.... if a cop approached me like that and rudely interrupted time with my daughter, I would have COMPLETELY ignored him. If escalated, I would have reminded him of the law and called 911 to report Official Oppression and harassment

[Yentl Marmelstein]

Did you get the moron's name?

[Mocha Java]

What constitutes identification in a situation like that? Is just a name sufficient?

[Mocha Java]

What constitutes identification in a situation like that? Is just a name sufficient?

Just curious, but what if the officer claims to have (or invents) RAS: can he detain you until you have been identified?

[wa3ra]

You must give your name, verbally, if requested, but that is it!

Nice job, OP!

[anonymouse]

You must give your name, verbally, if requested, but that is it!

Nice job, OP!

Where do we find this 'verbal identification' requirement?

[Daycrawler]

You must give your name, verbally, if requested, but that is it!

No you dont! What if you are incommunicado?

Mere incounter: A Police officer asks you what your name is because you are OC (like the OP) you are under NO OBLIGATION, NONE,NADA NOPE ZERO, ZILTCH to even answer him!


IANAL

[gnbrotz]

You must give your name, verbally, if requested, but that is it!

Nice job, OP!

Citation of law?

I'm unaware of ANY requirement to identify yourself, even if being "detained", when you are OC'ing, on foot, outside of Philly.

OP, I think you handled it well. First words out of my mouth? "Am I being detained?"

It's always fun if you can work "I'm terminating this encounter" into the conversation too, once it's been confirmed that you aren't being detained.