Carry in Bucks County Parks

**PA_SIGpacker** · July 6th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Here is something for some stimulating discussion.... This has probably come up before many times but for those of us newcomers.... what do you think about this sign posted in Playwicki Park in Bucks County? Has anyone ever called the County on this?

**Pa. Patriot** · July 6th, 2007, 11:26 AM

As far as "carrying a firearm" it is clearly preempted.

§ 6120. Limitation on the regulation of firearms and ammunition.
(a) General rule.--No county, municipality or township may in any manner regulate the lawful ownership, possession, transfer or transportation of firearms, ammunition or ammunition components when carried or transported for purposes not prohibited by the laws of this Commonwealth.
"Firearms." This term shall have the meaning given to it in section 5515 (relating to prohibiting of paramilitary training) but shall not include air rifles as that term is defined in section 6304 (relating to sale and use of air rifles).
"Political subdivision." The term shall include any home rule charter municipality, county, city, borough, incorporated town, township or school district.

IOW: All enforcement actions must be based on state law. Controlling case law: www.tinyurl.com/2wtovz Commonwealth v. Ortiz (1996), decided by the Pennsylvania Supreme Court.

**dgg9** · July 6th, 2007, 11:29 AM

There is some ongoing debate about whether STATE parks are above pre-emption, but IMO there's no validity to COUNTY park ordinances.

**VariableFeedback** · July 6th, 2007, 07:36 PM

I know for a fact that there are some people who have carried at Ringing Rocks County Park without incident.

**cz_40p** · July 7th, 2007, 11:19 AM

I live in Lackawanna County. I noticed a similar notice posted in McDade Park, a nice park owned and managed by the county. I have been leery of openly carrying in that park because the Sheriffs Dept provides security.

Specifically this has me worried.

"In accordance with 18 PA C.S. §6109, a sheriff may deny an individual the right to a License to Carry Firearms if there is reason to believe that the character and reputation of the individual are such that they would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety."

While PA is a shall issue state, the law is very ambiguous over the reasons a sheriff may deny or revoke a permit. I am sure if I got into a pissing match with a sheriffs deputy, it would not take long for my permit to be revoked under that clause.

Of course then I would get a Florida permit for car carry, and openly carry everywhere else.

**Pa. Patriot** · July 7th, 2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by cz_40p

"In accordance with 18 PA C.S. §6109, a sheriff may deny an individual the right to a License to Carry Firearms if there is reason to believe that the character and reputation of the individual are such that they would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety."

Ignoring a clearly preempted [VOID] law can in no way possibly be considered "...reason to believe that the character and reputation of the individual are such that they would be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety."

Also, as has been pointed out on this board previously, it is NOT as easy for a sheriff to revoke your permit as some here elude to.

Will the Lackawanna duputies give you a hassle due to that preempted reg? Good chance they will, I don't know how up to speed they are. But lawful is lawful so depending on how you handle yourself it may be nothing more than a good learning experience for them.
If I were in your shoes I would send a letter describing the issue you found and ask what they intend to do about it. Would also send a letter to the sheriff informing him of this preempted ordinance, and WHY you are informing him.

**Statkowski** · July 7th, 2007, 12:01 PM

A nicely-crafted letter, without excess babbling, to the county commissioners, pointing out the error, is well within your rights as a citizen (redress of grievances and all that).

Point out that it might be an oversight on their part (gives them wiggle room - nobody likes having their back to a wall, right or wrong).

Triple-check the spelling, grammar, and content. If you appear to be a kook or "gun nut," your letter will not be viewed favorably.

Don't threaten or insult (lawsuit, PAFOA, etc.). Save that for the second or third letter, if necessary.

Have an unbiased third party review your letter before mailing it.

Keep your sentences short, and to the point. Keep the entire letter short, sweet, and to the point. The commissioners' time is valuable.

See my posting on magesterial courts here