Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Buying a long arm out of state, face to face is legal. As long as your home state does not prohibit the purchase. This was my understanding of the law. (Shotgun or rifle).

    Well I just attempted to purchase a customized Mossburg 500 persuader at Kobb Creek in Kentucky. They informed me that within the last year ATF has changed the rules. Any pistol grip shotguns must be transferred.

    This gun was a bit over priced to begin with (but I liked it) add the shipping and the transfer fee put it over the top so I didn't buy it.

    Anyone know about this and when this got passed.
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  2. #2
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Quote Originally Posted by run silent run deep View Post
    Buying a long arm out of state, face to face is legal. As long as your home state does not prohibit the purchase. This was my understanding of the law. (Shotgun or rifle).
    I don't think that's true...

    http://forum.pafoa.org/general-2/585...g-selling.html

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Quote Originally Posted by run silent run deep View Post
    Buying a long arm out of state, face to face is legal. As long as your home state does not prohibit the purchase. This was my understanding of the law. (Shotgun or rifle)
    Only at a dealer.

    Well I just attempted to purchase a customized Mossburg 500 persuader at Kobb Creek in Kentucky. They informed me that within the last year ATF has changed the rules. Any pistol grip shotguns must be transferred.
    I think that rule's been around for a while. A shotgun that doesn't have a butt stock isn't a shotgun since the definition of shotgun is a shoulder weapon.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    According to the sticky both 2# in the federal and 1# in the state law says it is legal. But, not by mail from another state.

    Pertinent Federal Law:

    1. Interstate sales of ANY firearm (handgun or longarm) MUST involve a FFL on the buyers end. It is a felony under Federal law to sell to residents of another state FTF or by mail/shipping without involving a FFL on the buyers end.

    2. Longarms can generally be purchased from a FFL in any state, or from a resident of your own state.

    3. Handguns can only be purchased from/through a FFL in your state of residence.

    4. Federal law allows persons 18 years and older to purchase longarms from an FFL.

    5. Federal Law allows persons 21 years and older to purchase Handguns from an FFL.


    Pertinent Pennsylvania Law:

    1. Face To Face transfers/sales of longarms (shotgun or rifle) are legal in Pennsylvania. There is no requirement to use a FFL for a transfer of a longarm in PA, as long as neither person is a "prohibited person" (legally unable to purchase a firearm ) and both are legal aged(18 or older) residents of Pennsylvania. It's SUGGESTED that you provide a Bill of Sale and check ID on purchasers.
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  5. #5
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Quote Originally Posted by run silent run deep View Post
    According to the sticky both 2# in the federal and 1# in the state law says it is legal. But, not by mail from another state.

    Pertinent Federal Law:

    1. Interstate sales of ANY firearm (handgun or longarm) MUST involve a FFL on the buyers end. It is a felony under Federal law to sell to residents of another state FTF or by mail/shipping without involving a FFL on the buyers end.

    2. Longarms can generally be purchased from a FFL in any state, or from a resident of your own state.

    3. Handguns can only be purchased from/through a FFL in your state of residence.

    4. Federal law allows persons 18 years and older to purchase longarms from an FFL.

    5. Federal Law allows persons 21 years and older to purchase Handguns from an FFL.


    Pertinent Pennsylvania Law:

    1. Face To Face transfers/sales of longarms (shotgun or rifle) are legal in Pennsylvania. There is no requirement to use a FFL for a transfer of a longarm in PA, as long as neither person is a "prohibited person" (legally unable to purchase a firearm ) and both are legal aged(18 or older) residents of Pennsylvania. It's SUGGESTED that you provide a Bill of Sale and check ID on purchasers.

    By "Face to Face" I thought you meant no FFL involved. That is illegal for you to do in another state for a longarm - an FFL must be involved if you purchase or sell a longarm with a resident of another state - by mail or in person. I thought that's what you meant, perhaps I am confused.

    Pertinent Federal Law:

    1. Interstate sales of ANY firearm (handgun or longarm) MUST involve a FFL on the buyers end. It is a felony under Federal law to sell to residents of another state FTF or by mail/shipping without involving a FFL on the buyers end.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Quote Originally Posted by run silent run deep View Post
    Buying a long arm out of state, face to face is legal. As long as your home state does not prohibit the purchase. This was my understanding of the law. (Shotgun or rifle).

    Well I just attempted to purchase a customized Mossburg 500 persuader at Kobb Creek in Kentucky. They informed me that within the last year ATF has changed the rules. Any pistol grip shotguns must be transferred.

    This gun was a bit over priced to begin with (but I liked it) add the shipping and the transfer fee put it over the top so I didn't buy it.

    Anyone know about this and when this got passed.
    its not new, they did this way back, sometime around the original brady bill I think... but dont quote me on that.

    also, need to be 21 to buy a pistolgrip only shotgun, but a buttstocked one age is 18.

    your first statement is wrong, see the sticky quoted above, the ATF FAQ link answers that question... note that the pistolgrip shotgun is transferred similar age restriction to a pistol... thus is not considered a "shotgun" or a "rifle" for transfer purposes.

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]
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  7. #7
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Wow, they were more than willing to sell me a shotgun or a rifle. The only reason I said within the last year is because that is what they said. He even mentioned Obama did it.

    I guess it's buyer beware.

    I stand corrected

    Thanks
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    I'd call buying from a dealer OTC and not FTF.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    Quote Originally Posted by run silent run deep View Post
    Wow, they were more than willing to sell me a shotgun or a rifle. The only reason I said within the last year is because that is what they said. He even mentioned Obama did it.

    I guess it's buyer beware.

    I stand corrected

    Thanks
    quoted from Jaybell above: (Bold is mine.)

    Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

    A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

    A long gun does not meet the definition of a firearm, unless the barrel length is too short (and then its an SBR subject to NFA rules) or as noted above is a pistol grip only, (no buttstock) firearm. ETA: IN PA only

    ETA: For sure IANAL. The reading of the section of 18 USC above would seem to indicate that the purchase of a long gun would be pernissible, face to face at and from an FFL in another state if that long gun would be legal in the state of residence.

    The commentary on firearm vs long-gun is applicable in PA under 18 PA CS 6105 "Definitions".
    Last edited by PA Traveler; September 22nd, 2010 at 12:09 AM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Just learned a new gun law. ATF regulation ???

    I hope this isn't considered too much of a hijack but if you purchase something like the Mossberg Cuiser or Pursuader (pistol grip only shotgun) can you add a stock to it without turning it into an AOW? I assume it's legal to do so as long as the barrel is still the 18.5" right?
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