Private land for real training

[PoconoJo]

I've been thinking about this type of idea a lot myself over the last year or so and I've come to the conclusion that the best solution is to simply buy a piece of land just for this purpose. I've looked more in Pike and Wayne counties but haven't found anything I can afford. Most of what I find is huge and costs a lot or is just too small, basically residential. I stumbled across some lots up by Waymart yesterday that are about 3 acres each, with 4 of them adjoined with "owner financing" but I haven't been in contact with the owner yet. I'll get back if and when I find out anything.

The main question is how big is "big enough"? I've shot all day before on a small lot and a pile of sand. Obviously we were careful not to over shoot the back stop (even though we were in a heavily wooded area with no houses anywhere nearby) so we were limited in what we could do. It was better than any of the private/public ranges around but still "limited," which is what I think we are trying avoid..."limiting the limitations"

[Dredly]

make sure you look into local odances before you drop any money on land, a lot of them won't allow you to setup a shooting range.

Also it depends on the property, 3 acres is nice unless it is weird shapped or has houses on 3 sides...

[tsafa]

Sorry guys I just saw this thread last night while at the Range on my phone and I tried to type a response in my phone. It did not seem to have an edit button or let me make any additional posts. Initially I was only able to see the first post and could not read any of the subsequent posts. I'm back at a computer for the next two days so we can have a more complete discussion.

I have been experimenting with people who made inquires about bringing their own guns and ammo to see how that would work out. I ran a "bring your own guns and ammo day" this past Sunday. I had posted the event in the Events Area of this forum. The fee was $30 per person. I ran the event mainly to get people to the range and hear ideas. Six people came and we all had a good time.

Here is the post I made:
http://forum.pafoa.org/shoots-range-...bie-shoot.html

The main issue at hand that I have to contend with is that on the Tactical Range only one person can shoot at at time. That is because the shooter is moving down range shooting forward, left and right. On a standard range you can have 10 shooters paying just $10 each and all shooting at the same time under the observation of one Range Safety Officer, grossing $100 per hour. I think this is very reasonable. This same gross sum must be also generated if the range is intended to have just one shooter on it at a time. If it can not... then the range ceases to function in that capacity. This is probably the reason why most shooting ranges don't have tactical courses.

I have invested a lot of time and money into digging up berms and trenches that I would like to slowly recover. I have concluded that charging $100 per hour for the use of the tactical range is a reasonable amount to cover my time as RSO, Insurance, future maintenance, property taxes and slowly recover on money invested. Do I ever expect to actually make a real profit doing this... heck no, its a hobby. I have accepted the fact that I will always be putting more money into this then getting out... it does not matter as long as I am enjoying doing this... however, I can minimize the cost by getting people to chip in a reasonable amount for the use of the range.

As it stands now, I have been keeping a record of money coming in from beginners wanting basic instruction on the regular pistol and rifle range vs money coming in from the tactical course for advanced shooters. All money that comes in will be put back into the range for the side that it came in from. The newbie side has been doing well and financed a 300 foot rifle range. The tactical side less then a month old. I made it 180 feet long, twenty feet wide, 7 feet deep. It makes an "S" curve so you can not see targets around the curves. There is enough room on my property to go well over 1,000 feet with this tactical range... But I have to see if there is a real interest out there to invest the time and money to do this.

So to recap, I will allow "bring your own guns and ammo" at a rate of $100 per hour for the tactical course.

edit: I just got a very interesting inquiry after posting this from a NJ Gun Club that really excited me... what do you guys think about shooting after dark in the winter (5pm to 8 pm) in the tactical range lit by Tiki Torches.

[PoconoJo]

Tsafa,

I highly respect what you're doing. I believe your financial guidelines are reasonable.

I would, however, be leery of night time shoots by tiki lamps, particularly in your area. You may have people shooting at the lamps!

Also, your use of the term "zombie" on a shooting course so close to PCP may lead to charges of discrimination. That's no joke, I'm being dead serious. The innuendo is certainly there. You might want to stick to terms like "tactical" or even "criminally disadvantaged"

Along those lines, it must be tough on you having so much competition from PCP, where the residents (inmates?) have a much larger obstacle course and can shoot for FREE!!!! (with their own stolen guns and ammo!) With human targets no less!

[PoconoJo]

make sure you look into local ordinances before you drop any money on land, a lot of them won't allow you to setup a shooting range.

Also it depends on the property, 3 acres is nice unless it is weird shaped or has houses on 3 sides...

Trust me, I'm keeping all of that in mind, that's why I'm looking in areas where the local governments haven't (yet) been infiltrated by people who want to control every aspect of people's lives.

Plus, there's a difference between shooting into a pile of sand or dirt and having a commercial range. I only want something for myself and a few close friends. I don't have the ambition of Tsafa

All of the lots I saw were square/rectangular, the 4 together make one big square. Not much around in any direction.

[tsafa]

Also, your use of the term "zombie" on a shooting course so close to PCP may lead to charges of discrimination. That's no joke, I'm being dead serious. The innuendo is certainly there. You might want to stick to terms like "tactical" or even "criminally disadvantaged"

Along those lines, it must be tough on you having so much competition from PCP, where the residents (inmates?) have a much larger obstacle course and can shoot for FREE!!!! (with their own stolen guns and ammo!) With human targets no less!

Hi Jo. Your PCP post had me giggling.


Anybody here own an ATV? It would not work so well now, but when the tactical range is over 600 feet long... imagine riding down range with pistol in hand shooting at the targets The ATV has to be big enough to fit the RSO (me) on the back so I can meet my insurance obligations. We have to do some dry runs to test this idea but I think we can make it work.

[Dredly]

I'm sure you already have... but if you haven't you should probably check to see if you can even do what you are doing now according to monroe zoning. I'm pretty sure you need it to be zoned commercial to run the operation that you have setup... thats more taxes (kids gotta get their education!)

also you'll have issues with handicap bathrooms and such... my parents own a business and bought a house with the intention of downstairs being business, upstairs being rental, as soon as they mentioned the word business the dollar signs started showing up in the gov'ts eyes

may I suggest you "request a donation" and that the range be available for usage... if you do donations I think you can dodge a lot of it, otherwise you are going to get massively screwed


and there is no way your insurance company will approve the ATV riding while shooting

[RobW]

Not to pee in your cornflakes too bad or anything, but I can't image why anyone would pay the single use fee you are asking. There are local clubs that charge less for a year with access to multiple ranges, IPDA and IPSC props galore, etc. Makes no sense to me.

--RobW

Sorry guys I just saw this thread last night while at the Range on my phone and I tried to type a response in my phone. It did not seem to have an edit button or let me make any additional posts. Initially I was only able to see the first post and could not read any of the subsequent posts. I'm back at a computer for the next two days so we can have a more complete discussion.

I have been experimenting with people who made inquires about bringing their own guns and ammo to see how that would work out. I ran a "bring your own guns and ammo day" this past Sunday. I had posted the event in the Events Area of this forum. The fee was $30 per person. I ran the event mainly to get people to the range and hear ideas. Six people came and we all had a good time.

Here is the post I made:
http://forum.pafoa.org/shoots-range-...bie-shoot.html

The main issue at hand that I have to contend with is that on the Tactical Range only one person can shoot at at time. That is because the shooter is moving down range shooting forward, left and right. On a standard range you can have 10 shooters paying just $10 each and all shooting at the same time under the observation of one Range Safety Officer, grossing $100 per hour. I think this is very reasonable. This same gross sum must be also generated if the range is intended to have just one shooter on it at a time. If it can not... then the range ceases to function in that capacity. This is probably the reason why most shooting ranges don't have tactical courses.

I have invested a lot of time and money into digging up berms and trenches that I would like to slowly recover. I have concluded that charging $100 per hour for the use of the tactical range is a reasonable amount to cover my time as RSO, Insurance, future maintenance, property taxes and slowly recover on money invested. Do I ever expect to actually make a real profit doing this... heck no, its a hobby. I have accepted the fact that I will always be putting more money into this then getting out... it does not matter as long as I am enjoying doing this... however, I can minimize the cost by getting people to chip in a reasonable amount for the use of the range.

As it stands now, I have been keeping a record of money coming in from beginners wanting basic instruction on the regular pistol and rifle range vs money coming in from the tactical course for advanced shooters. All money that comes in will be put back into the range for the side that it came in from. The newbie side has been doing well and financed a 300 foot rifle range. The tactical side less then a month old. I made it 180 feet long, twenty feet wide, 7 feet deep. It makes an "S" curve so you can not see targets around the curves. There is enough room on my property to go well over 1,000 feet with this tactical range... But I have to see if there is a real interest out there to invest the time and money to do this.

So to recap, I will allow "bring your own guns and ammo" at a rate of $100 per hour for the tactical course.

edit: I just got a very interesting inquiry after posting this from a NJ Gun Club that really excited me... what do you guys think about shooting after dark in the winter (5pm to 8 pm) in the tactical range lit by Tiki Torches.

[tsafa]

and there is no way your insurance company will approve the ATV riding while shooting

I was going to make an inquiry into that... but thats fine, no ATV's for guests. Still something I would do myself when I get an ATV. The property is first and a foremost a playground for me. Second, it is a goal of mine to introduce new people who have never shot before to the fun of shooting. Those people get very "by the book instruction". They are the future pro-gun rights voters so it is a very high on my agenda. More high then the few dollars I might bring in with someone using the tactical range. So I am not running it as a business since profit is not the goal... and it is not likely to ever be profitable. I am running it as an Individual Instructor with an interest in steering people toward the pro-gun rights political camp.

One of my personal guidelines is not to try and turn a hobby into a job... because then you no longer enjoy the hobby.

[mrnyman]

If you guys dont mind going a little north into new york state, Dan Christmas and associates still has that great deal going, $29,000 for 5 acres with a new Cabin , comes with a new paddle boat and a new Marlin 336 , 30-30 , They also have 15 acre lots.
Check them out at www.landandcamps.com

Me and the old lady is looking into one of those.

And this is New York, you can hunt on Sundays and you can hunt with semi-autos.

Nyman