MAAC gun show harrisburg,pa

[sig2009]

We stopped going to this show about a year ago. I refuse to pay for parking in the middle of nowhere. Funny thing is that I emailed the organizer and complained about the parking and told him he is losing attendance because of it and he just doesn't get it. MOVE IT TO A DIFFERENT VENUE! Valley Forge is a much better show.

[forceinPA]

I explained to him the pricing and reason why I could not sell it to him, I dealt with people all day trying to haggel, here's another. have this AK knife@ 40 bucks, good quality piece for the price. Guy says will you take 35, I say Yes. Then he has the nerve to say, If you will take 35, how about 30, NO.
holy shit you give them a break and they want to still ass-rape ya. You here this shit all day long you get a short fuse I dont care who you are or what line of work your in from waitress to flagger's ... I agree noah with your statement, but i wasnt mean to the guy just explained it to him and he kept asking, it gets old...

I've been on both sides of the tables at gun shows, sometimes helping out dealers that I know when they set up at shows. I'm also an independent businessman in a non-firearms field. My formal training is a degree in Mechanical Engineering and Business Administration way back in 1978. The point that Force is trying to make is certainly valid, although with Force being in the business and still getting pissed off at gun show customers such as that one in his example, he might do well to find another line of work.

You can't get pissed, you can't get torn up inside. You price your merch at the margin you need, and move off that price if you have to on an individual basis, depending on the factors at the moment -- customer is a loyal "good" customer and seldom wants to dicker; customer is paying cash; business cash flow is tight, whatever. The "wrong" customer can get to you, however, and I can understand all too well Force's feelings on the subject.

Let me explain my perception of the issue: The majority of non-business-owners are not sensitive to the costs of running a successful business due to lack of experience. While they may acknowledge that business owners have the right to make enough money to cover expenses and make a profit, some just don't want that profit being made from sales to them.

Part of the customer's perception (rather, misperception) is that there are big markups in new guns because new guns carry such high price tags. Not true. A new (insert mfr and model here) with an $899 sticker costs a dealer maybe $800-$825 including shipping, leaving $75 to $99 for paying electricity, heating fuel, telephone and internet, payroll taxes, wages, shipping, FFL license fees, state firearms license fees, property and inventory taxes, business insurance (liability, building and contents), health insurance (now mandated by law), etc. Gotta sell a LOT of those expensive $899 guns to make enough nut to cover those expenses.

Second, anyone willing to spend the $$$ for a copy of SGN or Gun List pretty much knows "wholesale" prices and expects firearms dealers to order them these guns at those prices, charging only a token "transfer fee" of $10-$25 for doing so.

Those two reasons are why gun dealers prefer to sell used guns, buying them at 40%-60% of MSRP and marking them up to 90%-95% MSRP. Most gun dealers rely on sales of new accessories (scopes, mounts, ammo, leather, hunting equipment, etc.) and used guns to make ends meet and stay in business. Especially with a Dunhams, Dicks, Gander Mountain, or good ol' WalMart nearby.

Just my perception.

Noah

[JMIS]

Sounds like an ad, We dont mope, we get sick of people like you crying about how rude everyone was, and I can bet dollars to donuts you didnt talk to every dealer there, but you come here and complaine about them EXCEPT ONE OF COURSE. Well junior, we do get pissed I will admit that; and here is why.
I have a guy come to my table, he is interested in my Draco ak pistol @ 360.00 ( like that isnt a deal) now he wants it for 330.00 out the door. Some of you bitches must think we mark guns up 1-2 hundred bucks. I told him no can do. Ok, now he wants it out the door for the 360.00. now he pissed me off. I told him I marked it up 30 dollars and if I eat the tax I make a whoping 22 dollars. Gotta sell a lot of guns to pay for 210.00 dollars worth of tables if I make 22 a gun, do the fucking math.

Its obvious you guys who complaine have never ran a buisness. Lots of cost involved , and that dosnt include the paperwork. Now a few of you johnsons will come on here and cry " we didnt tell you to start a buisness" f- off. what did you ever do with out at least trying to be successful at it.

Now ya, there is a small percentage of dealers who do ask some crazy prices for stuff, but all dealers dont operate like that. I have many customers on here in the class 3 game who tell me all the time I have good prices compared to other SOT's in the state. I dont charge MSRP , but I make a good profit, too carry more product at a competative price. This is how to play the game to stay in the BIZ . If you have no clue how capitolism works move to russia or china were the prices are set for you, and have a good time.

I can go on and on, If you would like to know what crap we have put up with in this Biz feel free to call me and we can talk.

Will you be at Valley Forge this week? I'm in the market for a S&W MP15-22 MOE Flat Dark Earth.

[Noah_Zark]

I explained to him the pricing and reason why I could not sell it to him, I dealt with people all day trying to haggle . . . You hear this shit all day long you get a short fuse . . . i wasn't mean to the guy just explained it to him and he kept asking, it gets old...

And I was not implying that you were mean to the guy.

It takes a thick skin to wait on the public, and especially in an environment where negotiation is expected and practiced. Due to the level of inexperience on the part of most of the non-business-owning public with just how the wholesale and retail firearms business works, it can make for a high frustration level with some customers. I feel your pain.

When I help with a dealer at a show, it can get frustrating with johns taking their guns for a walk, trying to sell. The vast majority of these folks base the asking price for their guns on Gunbroker starting bid prices, which in most cases are unrealistic. That's what they ask for, and when you pass on it, they ask for an offer. When you offer 50% to 60% of retail because that's the margin that works to meet all your costs (not just gunshow, but storefront costs, too) they get offended because you are trying to rip them off. Sometimes you get called names. I always tell myself, it's nothing personal, it's just business, and a business that they don't understand.

You can be a great guy, and give people the best deals in the business, but if you don't make the required margin, you are shipping dollars out the door along with the products you sell. Before long, you're facing creditors and you're out of business.

Noah

[forceinPA]

so true.. you get rep

[MotoLappa]

I was at the show Saturday. It was pretty much my first time at a show that size so I am not sure if it was big or not. It was ok. I not really looking for anything special but I was keeping my eye out for a decent 20 gaguge for my son. They were much not many there. The one model I was thinking about and did see was more than I can get at a local dealer near me. I didnt try to haggle or even ask about it. I seen several grip pods and red dots that my son has been wanting for his MP1522 and many were not marked for price. Funny thing is the couple of dealers I asked for price said the same thing. "we are the lowest prices here today". After making my rounds and getting prices, I went back to a guy and asked if he could do any better if I bout them both. Same answer. "I am the lowest priced already." In a joking manner I explained how I was told that by 2 others. Kepp in mind I never tryed to work either of them down, In the end, He sold them to me for cheaper than he was asking. I wasnt rude to him and we were joking back and forth. He was really cool about it. I probably would have bought them from him even if I had to pay the full asking price. I pretty much know what I want to spend ahead of time anyway, For me I will always see if I can a little of if I can. I am not gonna be a asshole about it. I will usually ask. Its usually yes or no. I dont how or care how the dealers run thier bank account is run, but I do know my account has its limits. I was OK with the $8 to get in since it was the 1st big show I went in. Didnt like the $8 to park. Probably would be OK with that if I had a few friends along so split it up.
I will be going to the VF show Saturday.

[arjohnson]

I explained to him the pricing and reason why I could not sell it to him, I dealt with people all day trying to haggel, here's another. have this AK knife@ 40 bucks, good quality piece for the price. Guy says will you take 35, I say Yes. Then he has the nerve to say, If you will take 35, how about 30, NO.
holy shit you give them a break and they want to still ass-rape ya. You here this shit all day long you get a short fuse I dont care who you are or what line of work your in from waitress to flagger's ... I agree noah with your statement, but i wasnt mean to the guy just explained it to him and he kept asking, it gets old...

That's the nature of gun shows, people are there to haggle and get better pricing than they normally would at a shop.

Most deals at todays gun shows are usually on used items, dealers usually have room to work with the price. If I want something new I don't waste my time going to gun shows looking for it but on occassion I will find a good deal on a new item.