Another lovely interaction

[ViperGTS19801]

So, I went for a stroll to get some Chinese food today - OC, as always.

After placing my order, I sat on a bench right outside. While fiddling with Facebook from my smartphone, a police cruiser pulls up, circles around, and parks. The female officer gets out and walks over. In a friendly manner, I waved a hello, and smiled.

"So I guess you know why I'm here?"
"Yes I do."
"You got ID?" This was said with a subtle hint of attitude.
"Yep."
"May I see it?"
Because I did not appreciate the tone of her voice, I said, "I don't need to identify myself to you."
"Yes you do - I'm investigating a complaint. Let me see your ID."
I took a moment to think about how to phrase the next thing I was going to say. "I don't need to identify myself to you - and now, this mere encounter is terminated. Have a great weekend and I hope you enjoy your holiday."

This did not sit well with her. There was about ten seconds of silence while she (I assume) stared at my skull when I went back to fiddling with my phone.

"So you're not going to identify yourself to me?"
"I have no legal obligation to do so, so, no."
"Yes you do! You need to provide identification to a police officer when they ask for it."
"Until you decide to change this from a mere encounter to a Terry stop, I don't have to do a thing. Now have a nice evening."
"This is NOT a mere encounter! I am investigating a complaint, and you need to show me some ID!"

Instead of continuing to argue with her, I went back to my phone again.

After a few more seconds of her participating in a staring contest with my scalp, she strode over to her cruiser. A few moments later, a second car, from another township, pulls up, and an older, much...kinder, for lack of a better phrase, looking officer steps out. He asks,

"Is there any particular reason you won't identify yourself to this officer?"
"I don't need a reason. I don't have to show her my papers."
"You have to provide ID upon lawful demand."
"Not unless I'm being detained. If that's all you have to ask me about, I think we're through here."

This went back and forth a few more times, and I got the whole, "I don't know you from Adam" schpeel, which came on the tails of a comment along the lines of, "You just have an attitude so you can exploit this online!", which seemed kindof contradictory to me. Well, here it is.

Since they weren't going away and I was getting pretty annoyed, I ultimately gave her my name, then refused to give her my address or date of birth when she asked for them. The other officer mentioned that if I just show them ID when they ask for it, we won't have these kinds of confrontations. As they were getting into their squad cars, their oppressive nature got the better of me and I apologized to the female officer (okay, maybe I was a little bit quick to jump on the "leave me alone" wagon).

Since I am pretty sure that the local police like to follow my threads on here, I hope they also read the following line - forthwith, if you ask me for my identification, and I am not doing something that requires I have a license to do it, nor do you suspect me of committing or having committed any crimes, I will not furnish my ID, nor will I verbally identify myself to you. If you don't stop questioning me after I tell you that the Mere Encounter is terminated (and don't insult my intelligence by telling me it's "not" a Mere Encounter), I will consider further interaction to be harassment. I'm sick and tired of the police telling me that, despite what the law says they have the power to do, they can do whatever the hell they want, simply because they have a shiney little tin badge.

Flame suit = ON.

ETA - I have a small update on this somewhat old story, for those who are interested.

In the course of my current battle with the Philadelphia PD, they opened an investigation on me. They went around collecting police reports from my various negative encounters in Lansdale (but none of the positive ones, I wonder why? ). This encounter is included.

Apparently, the Lansdale PS received a phone call from a man who shall go unnamed, who claimed he saw a man matching my description walking on the sidewalk with an unconcealed pistol in a holster on his hip. The Lansdale PD asked the person who made the MWAG call if the MWAG had threatened him in any way.

The man making the report said no. "But he sure scared the hell out of me!"

[dc dalton]

Boy your are an asshole cop magnet aren't you?

Personally I can understand completely where you are coming from, and can understand why you are doing what you are doing.

Anyone that wants to flame you needs to spend a few weeks or months living in that shit hole they call Philly and trying to exercise their rights.

[Gunnutz13]

QUOTE ViperGTS19801 : "...A few moments later, a second car, from another township, pulls up..." END QUOTE

What township were you in...and what township was the second patrol car from ?

Why would the female officer call for backup from another township ?

Curious...

[ViperGTS19801]

I did not see where the other car was from, but the uniform design and paintjob on the car was completely different from that of my local police.

[bdevil73]

Nonononono, I'm NOT OCing in Philly again until this issue gets resolved and I have my own property back. I would never risk having someone else's firearm confiscated.

Glad to see you are making good on your promises.

[gold cup abuser]

" Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to go?"

If no answer walk away.

If yes:

" I am exercising my 5th amendment rights and wish to speak to an attorney'

[cigarmanpa]

id? what id? oh that....left it at home

[Computer Steve]

All jokes set aside I know that you are presented with very little wiggle room at that moment. Especially when you are all alone. They are trying to get you to slip up so they can do you a favor and give you a disorderly charge.

Next time they ask "do you know why I'm here"

Respond with "for good Chinese food?"

If you were engaged in legal behavior then there is no reason to think or assume that they are actually there for you. Their questions and your answers are often strategic in nature.

That being said - like I said its much different when they are in front of you and repeating themselves like broken records trying to get you to submit your identification to them.

You obviously conducted yourself well.

[IronSight]

Hmmm, while I hate the idea of second-guessing a split-second reaction to a question I'm going to do it anyway.

"So I guess you know why I'm here?"
"Yes I do."

This response I think could have caused you trouble. After all, I'm assuming you don't know the specific nature of the 911 call/complaint the officer is responding too. By saying "yes" to the question above, you could just be reinforcing to the officer what was otherwise just a baseless complaint from a citizen, because a "yes" to that question reinforces the idea that there's a legitimate reason why the officer is there, and not the reality that the reason is probably illegitimate.

Answering "no" forces the officer into a corner to explain to you why you're being confronted. It's far better to let the officer do the talking so as not to accidentally reinforce whatever details the call/complaint they received gave.

That's all I'll second guess, because saying "yes" there just doesn't seem right by me. But hey, to each their own, and it didn't cause you any trouble this time around.

[svltrack]

" Am I being detained?"

"Am I free to go?"

If no answer walk away.

If yes:

" I am exercising my 5th amendment rights and wish to speak to an attorney'

I agree with this ^^^^


Unless there is more to this story though, this is another case of abuse. Is playing with your phone a new crime? There is absolutely no reason for them to harass you whatsoever. A drive-by style inspection for a MWAG call makes sense.. unless you are actually committing a crime or they have reasonable suspicion to think you are about to (with supporting facts) they have no grounds to do what they did.

As far as the flame suit goes Viper. I and many others have expressed our opinion many times over... I support your right to OC whether I agree with how you go about your interactions with LE. I'll say one thing is for sure, you are one tenacious individual. Bravo for not breaking like they want you to.. Bravo