"old timers" at the hardware store "someone told me you could carry like that"

[dc dalton]

Had to hit the local hardware store this morning for a new brush so I can finish finishing my front porch floor. Now I am in this place constantly and never as much as a peep has been said about the gun before but as I was paying one of the old timers that works there said (from behind me) "Someone told me you could carry like that". I turned and said:

"yup, open carry is 100% legal in Pa, basically because there is no law making it illegal". The guy that was ringing me up, the owner, stopped, looked at me and said "what? say that again". I said "there is no law specifically stating that the open carry of firearms is illegal within the state, so since there is no law saying you can't it is by default legal"

Anyways, he got it and we started talking. Went through the entire speech and then answered questions from both of them like "so if I store it properly for transport and I don't have a license I can then take it out of the car once parked, strap it on and walk around?" BTW, the store owner does not have his LTCF but the older guy did.

Also told them about this years training memo when they asked about getting hassled, told them the horror stories from Philly and few more odds and ends when the first guy mentioned HB 40 (said he read about it in the NRA magazine) Told them it was being held up in committee but a petition was being signed to pull it out and have a floor vote. Then we got into whether Rendell would sign it yadda yadda. Told them both they should really take the time to contact their reps and help push this.

About this time the old timer starts looking at the Kimber REALLY close and says "Is that thing cocked", I said of course it is it's a 1911, that's how you carry them "cocked locked and ready to rock" the guy steps back and says "Oh yeah, single action"

I went out to the car to get them fliers and sure enough I was out of them but when I came back in the conversation turned to reciprocity, which neither of them new we had so I ran through as many states as I could think of and then told them about the Utah license that got them a ton more states.

The owner asked about going into an 'unfriendly state' and I went through that with him (the transport through an unfriendly state to another friendly state) and specifically warned both of them about NJ and NY.

Had to run but sure as shit when I got home I realized I didn't have enough steel wool for the job so I grabbed fliers and hopped in the car, only to have the damn dog charge one of the front dining room windows when I pulled out and smashed the window all over the front yard. Well now I REALLY have to go back to the store. Took some measurements and off I went. As the one was cutting my new glass I gave them both fliers and told them to take a look at them and the sites listed on them, both seemed very interested (especially the old timer who was an NRA member but obviously didn't understand Pa. laws at all). Back home and window repair time (oh joy)

So not just an OC event, it included HB 40, reciprocity, traveling and a whole bunch more. Will have to see what they have to say next time I need to stop in.

[andrewjs18]

kudos, Dave..keep educating.

[ungawa]

Had to run but sure as shit when I got home I realized I didn't have enough steel wool for the job so I grabbed fliers and hopped in the car, only to have the damn dog charge one of the front dining room windows when I pulled out and smashed the window all over the front yard.

Holy crap! That's insane. That beast is a menace!

Rep for the hardware store encounters.

[Policraticus]

Hope the dog was unhurt. In defense of the dog though "when you gotta go, you gotta go". As for the distinguished gents at the hardware it looks like you firmed up their support of the 2A. You were a courteous representative of the progun community.

[ROCK-IT3]

Anyways, he got it and we started talking. Went through the entire speech and then answered questions from both of them like "so if I store it properly for transport and I don't have a license I can then take it out of the car once parked, strap it on and walk around?" BTW, the store owner does not have his LTCF but the older guy did.

What was your answer to this question, DC?

[MischaBurns]

rep gods refused my request, i'll try to hit you later

[dc dalton]

Holy crap! That's insane. That beast is a menace!

Rep for the hardware store encounters.

Yeah this 'charging the windows' crap HAS to stop. I knew this was going to happen one of these days.

And yes, she wasn't hurt. I'm guessing she did her normal 'nose bounce' off the glass and it gave way. Actually blew glass 4' out into the front yard.

To make it worse it was one of the last remaining original pieces of 'flawed glass' in the house. Shit is 107 years old and worth a bloody fortune.

Bad dog! BAD BAD dog!

What was your answer to this question, DC?

The answer was yes, as long as the weapon was stored properly during transport and he was then 'going to walk around' and then store it properly once he got back to the car without ever entering the car while carrying the weapon.

[DonM55]

Thought you could only transport to and from range or gun shop (FFL). You could not transport to an area just so you could open carry.

[ROCK-IT3]

Originally Posted by ROCK-IT3
What was your answer to this question, DC?

The answer was yes, as long as the weapon was stored properly during transport and he was then 'going to walk around' and then store it properly once he got back to the car without ever entering the car while carrying the weapon.

DC, I am going to have to disagree with your answer to him. My understanding from others on this site, as well as my reading of the statute, is that transporting a firearm, even unloaded and stored properly, for the purpose of open carrying at your destination, does not meet any of the exceptions which allow you to transport a firearm in a vehicle without an LTCF. Perhaps you know of something that I and others aren't aware of, but I believe you may have given that man some bad info.

Here is the statute, with my bold on the parts that I believe are pertinent.


18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.
(2) A person who is otherwise eligible to possess a [FN1] valid license under this chapter but carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license and has not committed any other criminal violation commits a misdemeanor of the first degree.
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
(1) Constables, sheriffs, prison or jail wardens, or their deputies, policemen of this Commonwealth or its political subdivisions, or other law-enforcement officers.
(2) Members of the army, navy, marine corps, air force or coast guard of the United States or of the National Guard or organized reserves when on duty.
(3) The regularly enrolled members of any organization duly organized to purchase or receive such firearms from the United States or from this Commonwealth.
(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.
(5) Officers or employees of the United States duly authorized to carry a concealed firearm.
(6) Agents, messengers and other employees of common carriers, banks, or business firms, whose duties require them to protect moneys, valuables and other property in the discharge of such duties.
(7) Any person engaged in the business of manufacturing, repairing, or dealing in firearms, or the agent or representative of any such person, having in his possession, using or carrying a firearm in the usual or ordinary course of such business.
(8) Any person while carrying a firearm which is not loaded and is in a secure wrapper from the place of purchase to his home or place of business, or to a place of repair, sale or appraisal or back to his home or place of business, or in moving from one place of abode or business to another or from his home to a vacation or recreational home or dwelling or back, or to recover stolen property under section 6111.1(b)(4) (relating to Pennsylvania State Police), or to a place of instruction intended to teach the safe handling, use or maintenance of firearms or back or to a location to which the person has been directed to relinquish firearms under 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108 (relating to relief) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a licensed dealer's place of business for relinquishment pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S § 6108.2 (relating to relinquishment for consignment sale, lawful transfer or safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm or to a location for safekeeping pursuant to 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping) or back upon return of the relinquished firearm.
(9) Persons licensed to hunt, take furbearers or fish in this Commonwealth, if such persons are actually hunting, taking furbearers or fishing as permitted by such license, or are going to the places where they desire to hunt, take furbearers or fish or returning from such places.
(10) Persons training dogs, if such persons are actually training dogs during the regular training season.
(11) Any person while carrying a firearm in any vehicle, which person possesses a valid and lawfully issued license for that firearm which has been issued under the laws of the United States or any other state.
(12) A person who has a lawfully issued license to carry a firearm pursuant to section 6109 (relating to licenses) and that said license expired within six months prior to the date of arrest and that the individual is otherwise eligible for renewal of the license.
(13) Any person who is otherwise eligible to possess a firearm under this chapter and who is operating a motor vehicle which is registered in the person's name or the name of a spouse or parent and which contains a firearm for which a valid license has been issued pursuant to section 6109 to the spouse or parent owning the firearm.
(14) A person lawfully engaged in the interstate transportation of a firearm as defined under 18 U.S.C § 921(a)(3) (relating to definitions) in compliance with 18 U.S.C. § 926A (relating to interstate transportation of firearms).
(15) Any person who possesses a valid and lawfully issued license or permit to carry a firearm which has been issued under the laws of another state, regardless of whether a reciprocity agreement exists between the Commonwealth and the state under section 6109(k), provided:
(i) The state provides a reciprocal privilege for individuals licensed to carry firearms under section 6109.
(ii) The Attorney General has determined that the firearm laws of the state are similar to the firearm laws of this Commonwealth.
(16) Any person holding a license in accordance with section 6109(f)(3).
(c) Sportsman's firearm permit.--
(1) Before any exception shall be granted under paragraph (b)(9) or (10) of this section to any person 18 years of age or older licensed to hunt, trap or fish or who has been issued a permit relating to hunting dogs, such person shall, at the time of securing his hunting, furtaking or fishing license or any time after such license has been issued, secure a sportsman's firearm permit from the county treasurer. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be issued immediately and be valid throughout this Commonwealth for a period of five years from the date of issue for any legal firearm, when carried in conjunction with a valid hunting, furtaking or fishing license or permit relating to hunting dogs. The sportsman's firearm permit shall be in triplicate on a form to be furnished by the Pennsylvania State Police. The original permit shall be delivered to the person, and the first copy thereof, within seven days, shall be forwarded to the Commissioner of the Pennsylvania State Police by the county treasurer. The second copy shall be retained by the county treasurer for a period of two years from the date of expiration. The county treasurer shall be entitled to collect a fee of not more than $6 for each such permit issued, which shall include the cost of any official form. The Pennsylvania State Police may recover from the county treasurer the cost of any such form, but may not charge more than $1 for each official permit form furnished to the county treasurer.
(2) Any person who sells or attempts to sell a sportsman's firearm permit for a fee in excess of that amount fixed under this subsection commits a summary offense.
(d) Revocation of registration.--Any registration of a firearm under subsection (c) of this section may be revoked by the county treasurer who issued it, upon written notice to the holder thereof.
(e) Definitions.--
(1) For purposes of subsection (b)(3), (4), (5), (7) and (8), the term "firearm" shall include any weapon which is designed to or may readily be converted to expel any projectile by the action of an explosive or the frame or receiver of the weapon.
(2) As used in this section, the phrase "place of instruction" shall include any hunting club, rifle club, rifle range, pistol range, shooting range, the premises of a licensed firearms dealer or a lawful gun show or meet.

[dc dalton]

DC, I am going to have to disagree with your answer to him. My understanding from others on this site, as well as my reading of the statute, is that transporting a firearm, even unloaded and stored properly, for the purpose of open carrying at your destination, does not meet any of the exceptions which allow you to transport a firearm in a vehicle without an LTCF. Perhaps you know of something that I and others aren't aware of, but I believe you may have given that man some bad info.

Well seeing as how I have to run up there AGAIN (forgot caulk) I will have to mention this but I can't remember exactly where he said he was taking it to (hypothetical). Can't hit a home run every time.

But I FINALLY got the 2nd coat of finish on the damn porch, Monday 3rd coat and it's finally done and I can take the damn plastic off the front of the house that's been up for 10 months.