Bad Time at the Range

[VinF88]

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to introduce myself first as this occurrence made me finally register with the forums here and pa open carry. I have used the forums to read up and fully understand the Pa Firearm laws and regulations and for that i thank everyone here.

Now my Story:

I have been a member at a range for years that my father originally took me to when i was 16. 3 years later, now 19 i am allowed to open carry and transport firearms as long as they are unloaded and properly separated, as all of you would know. Yesterday i though variety is always nice and the girlfriend and i headed up to a certain range in Phoenixville. (Wont mention the name.)

It was the first time we would be shooting there so i decided to leave all firearms, ammo, and accessories except for an EMPTY belt holster in my vehicle as to not violate any policies unknowingly.

We went to the range and proceeded to fill out the release and present our drivers licenses as identification. I asked the attendant/range master if open carry was permitted in the range because i wanted to do some draw and shoot drill. She stated yes, but you may not "quick draw." Understanding and fine with this we finished up the paper work and then i knew something was wrong.

She asked if i was law enforcement - I stated that i wasn't and asked why she was inquiring. She then proceeded to tell me i was violation state and federal law by carrying a firearm without a LTCF and not being 21. I assured her that i was not indeed carrying (holster was empty), excused myself for the misunderstanding, and stated that even if i was, it would be open carry and that is permitted by law to those over 18yo.

Overhearing the altercation the gentlemen at the counter stepped in and proceeded to literally shush her up. He then also accused me of violating state and federal law by carrying a firearm without a LTCF and not being 21. He stated that unless 21 you can not possess, own, fire, touch, or be in any sort of contact with a firearm, especially not carrying it or transporting it in a vehicle. He assured me that it would be wise to trust him becase he "knows all about this stuff" and that i would be sent to jail for my violations if stopped. Mind you, I at this point, am not even in possession of a firearm on my persons.

After stating the Facts and Law by the statute numbers and exception # 4 about transporting firearms to and from target shooting as long as they are separated, he stumbled over his words and then finally stated WELL YOU CANT SHOOT HERE! Being what i consider a responsible and level headed gun owner i don't believe a range is the place to argue. I said i didn't plan on it and proceeded to leave.

On the way out i noticed a sign that said under 21 can only shoot long guns. I laughed at how much easier it would have been if they said that from the get-go.

Funny how the know-it-all knew nothing at all and even better was how he shut up Miss Sunshine. I'm a responsible, educated young man that knows the law. They just lost a whole lot of future business with my father and I, and i never plan on returning.

Hope it wasn't too much to read, thanks all.
Vince.

[anonymouse]

It sounds like they're confusing their policy with the law.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6110.1: Possession of firearm by minor
(a) Firearm.--Except as provided in subsection (b), a person under 18 years of age shall not possess or transport a firearm anywhere in this Commonwealth.

At 19 you may possess a handgun. You just can't buy it at an FFL

IANAL

[knight0334]

And on top of what was posted above - NO license is needed even to conceal at a range, let alone open carry.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6106:
(b) Exceptions.--The provisions of subsection (a) shall not apply to:
(4) Any persons engaged in target shooting with a firearm, if such persons are at or are going to or from their places of assembly or target practice and if, while going to or from their places of assembly or target practice, the firearm is not loaded.

There is NO federal law barring someone over the age of 18 from possessing a handgun. Federal law only prohibits giving/selling to a minor less that 18yo, and regulates the commercial transfers of long guns to those 18yo+, and the commercial transfer of handguns to those 21yo+.

Just find another range because that one is run by idiots.

[64Jeeper]

Without saying the name of the range you went to (and I'm pretty sure I know which one), whoever told you that you can't shoot pistols there because of your age is full of shit, because I take my 15 year old son there all the time!!! Granted, he's accompanied by an adult (me), but never the less, he goes to the range with me and shoots. I've noticed that they have a couple of new people there, and I guess I'm gonna have to go in there and educate them.

[God's Country]

OP just to be clear you cannot OC in Philly without a LTCF and that you can OC elsewhere while on foot, which means you cannot effectively OC anywhere (unless you walk a lot from your home)unless you meet one of the other listed exemptions to transport your handguns. Unless I'm missing something.

[VinF88]

Without saying the name of the range you went to (and I'm pretty sure I know which one), whoever told you that you can't shoot pistols there because of your age is full of shit, because I take my 15 year old son there all the time!!! Granted, he's accompanied by an adult (me), but never the less, he goes to the range with me and shoots. I've noticed that they have a couple of new people there, and I guess I'm gonna have to go in there and educate them.

I agree and I'm happy to hear you are doing the same thing my Father did for me. However after being accused of breaking the law, i finally realized after turning to leave that their policy is 21 - Pistols 18 - Long Guns without a parent or legal guardian.

I am completely ok with not being able to shoot pistols there, thats their policy and i respect that, but to lose your cool like he did and spit out a bunch of garbage..... no thanks.

And Knight, i went straight to the good ole range i was introduced to firearms at and had a great time there.

[Gary737]

..... now 19 i am allowed to open carry and transport firearms as long as they are unloaded and properly separated, as all of you would know.......

You cannot transport a firearm to open carry unless you have a LTCF. You are 19 so that rules out the LTCF. For instance.....You cannot transport your pistol in your trunk to your destination (even if it's unloaded, separated from the ammunition, blah,blah,blah), then take it from the trunk and put it on your hip and open carry. You would be in violation of the law.

Other than the stated exceptions, the only way you can open carry is if you walk without transporting the firearm in a vehicle.

[jcabin]

You cannot transport a firearm to open carry unless you have a LTCF. You are 19 so that rules out the LTCF. For instance.....You cannot transport your pistol in your trunk to your destination (even if it's unloaded, separated from the ammunition, blah,blah,blah), then take it from the trunk and put it on your hip and open carry. You would be in violation of the law.

Other than the stated exceptions, the only way you can open carry is if you walk without transporting the firearm in a vehicle.

And you cannot open carry in a city of the first class without a LTCF. So you have to wait until you're 21 and obtain your LTCF to open carry in philadelphia(which is the only city of the first class in PA).

[tl_3237]

and you can't OC within 1000' of a Pa school except on private property (18 USC 922(q)) without a Pa LTCF though I've never heard of it being charged absent other criminal activity.

[Conglomeration Al]

Yeah, I hate Target Master too.