Question about "Presentation" by McNeese

**Robert Kayland** · August 23rd, 2010, 10:16 AM

I was linked to this video by a Gunbroker newsletter in which Gunsite's instructions of pistol presentation are given.

Just curious what you guys think about this... in my mind, it appears he violates the third fundamental rule of gun safety, i.e., keeping one's finger off the trigger until on target.

It looks to me like he's a little premature with his trigger finger, and still in the not-yet-completed aiming process while simultaneously starting to apply pressure on the trigger.

What's your opinion?
http://www.nssf.org/video/index.cfm?vidID=44

**ProShooter** · August 23rd, 2010, 10:54 AM

I dont like it. If you are touching the trigger during that "smack" phase, there's a good chance or firing a round off before you intend to. The finger should be off the trigger until you are on target and have made the decision to fire.

**TonyF** · August 23rd, 2010, 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

I was linked to this video by a Gunbroker newsletter in which Gunsite's instructions of pistol presentation are given.

Just curious what you guys think about this... in my mind, it appears he violates the third fundamental rule of gun safety, i.e., keeping one's finger off the trigger until on target.

It looks to me like he's a little premature with his trigger finger, and still in the not-yet-completed aiming process while simultaneously starting to apply pressure on the trigger.

What's your opinion?

That is indeed the correct way to present the handgun.

In the case of a 1911 or striker fired designs, the slack is taken out of the trigger from step 4 to step 5, or in the case of the SIG DA/SA that Charlie was using in the demo, slight "staging" of the trigger is performed as the weapon is brought "on target".

Any concern about Rule #3 is mitigated by the fact that you have "made" a decision to present and (possibly) fire your weapon which should be based on the premise that a threat has placed you in extremis and justification exists to employ deadly force.

FWIW, Charlie was the Rangemaster in my Gunsite 350 class in April 2003. He is a long time veteran of the AZ DPS.

**Robert Kayland** · August 23rd, 2010, 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by TonyF

That is indeed the correct way to present the handgun.

In the case of a 1911 or striker fired designs, the slack is taken out of the trigger from step 4 to step 5, or in the case of the SIG DA/SA that Charlie was using in the demo, slight "staging" of the trigger is performed as the weapon is brought "on target".

Any concern about Rule #3 is mitigated by the fact that you have "made" a decision to present and (possibly) fire your weapon which should be based on the premise that a threat has placed you in extremis and justification exists to employ deadly force.

FWIW, Charlie was the Rangemaster in my Gunsite 350 class in April 2003. He is a long time veteran of the AZ DPS.

He's obviously more of an expert than I'd ever hope to be... it just struck me as unusual, because if you run the video in slow motion, his finger looks like it's on the trigger well-before the gun is pointing forward.

**TonyF** · August 23rd, 2010, 01:41 PM

Originally Posted by Robert Kayland

He's obviously more of an expert than I'd ever hope to be... it just struck me as unusual, because if you run the video in slow motion, his finger looks like it's on the trigger well-before the gun is pointing forward.

The video didn't seem to be choreographed very well in that there was a pause between the time he touched the trigger and the time he began to thrust the weapon forward.

The bottom line is touching the trigger and thrusting the weapon forward is supposed to occur simultaneously.

If you look closely, at about 1:40 into the video, he executes it properly. Don't get hung up on "a precise moment of time" for the trigger finger to touch the trigger. If it occurs "just as" the weapon is thrust forward, or a moment or so "after", it is of no consequence.

The principle is that the slack is out of the trigger (1911 / Glock) or the DA/SA trigger is staged before the sights are on target.

HTH

**Robert Kayland** · August 23rd, 2010, 02:03 PM

The principle is that the slack is out of the trigger (1911 / Glock) or the DA/SA trigger is staged before the sights are on target.

I can see that.

But I can also imagine that a 'somewhat-less-than-expert' type of fellow, full of adrenaline, might 'jump the gun', as it were.

Guess that's why they emphasize the "practice" part.

Thanks for the input.

**Carnes** · August 24th, 2010, 12:52 AM

Just to add a couple shillings...

Don't forget to take into consideration what your purpose/intent/mission is regarding your presentation. The presentation shown in that video is specific to drawing the gun into an immediate, civillian, engagement where the decision to shoot has already been made.

Some people will argue that given PA law a citizen should not present their weapon unless they intend to shoot. I feel that there are situations where one may want to introduce their weapon without immediately engaging the target, and if that is the case a person may want to 'keep their finger off the trigger until they are prepared to engage the target.'

The method shown in the video is intended to have an individual get from a holstered condition to 'rounds on target' as quickly as can be done while mitigating the vast majority of risk to bystanders. That is not always going to satisfy the individual's purpose/intent/mission.

A person may determine that just making the presence of the gun known could diffuse the situation. Alternatively, in an environment where 'collateral damage' is more acceptable, the shooter can begin banging off rounds as soon as the pistol is oriented toward the target, and will continue to shoot while the gun comes up and the sight picture is acquired. Commonly referred to as 'zippering up' on the target, it is not something you want to do in the walmart parking lot.

It is up to the individual to determine what tools they want to have available for dealing with various threats. The technique shown in the video crushes the '21 foot' rule. If a person with a knife charges, from 21', a defender who is well trained in the technique shown will devistate the attacker every time. And, what is worth mentioning too, in my experience with FoF, I have yet to unintentionally discharge the gun against a target that suddenly transitioned from a threat to a non-threat. (granted that comes after a lot of practice) I've trained against the 21' rule and if the attacker drops the knife, and stops, as soon as he sees that the gun has been introduced, I have not shot the attacker even though I 'staged' [had my finger on] the trigger.

Keep in mind that comes with a lot of practice. While learning/training the type of presentation shown in the video I have had rounds go off that, while still safely oriented toward the target, were premature. I would not recommend this technique to someone that intends to just practice it a few times at the range, then feel prepared to effectively/safely deploy it in a real-life situation.

So, there are more aggressive, and less aggressive presentation techniques available. I feel that with adequate training, the technique shown in the video is ideal for most civillian applications. But, that depends entirely on your environment and level of comittment.

Different draw-strokes for different folks.

**Robert Kayland** · August 24th, 2010, 09:07 AM

Well done, Carnes.

**Carnes** · August 27th, 2010, 12:19 PM

I wish I could get threads like this one to go on for hundreds of posts rather than arguing about gays, mosques and write-in votes all the time.

Don't get me wrong, liberty and firearms are so closely interrelated that I'll always be glad to support the case for liberty on a gun forum, but I do like talking tactics from time to time.