Rifle for target competition and critters

[Pete D.]

.223. Factory ammo is plentiful and cheap. Light and slow bullet,

Light and slow.....a 52 grain bullet at 3400 fps. Slow?

a 22-250; flat trajectory, very fast,

Very fast....well, faster. A 52 grain bullet at 3700 fps.

Pete

[Tim Ault]

Light and slow.....a 52 grain bullet at 3400 fps. Slow?



Very fast....well, faster. A 52 grain bullet at 3700 fps.

Pete

Very True ,And if were talking factory loadings only the 223 will whip the 22-250 at distance,even with a slight breeze.

223 w/77gr bullet at 600 yds.

or

22-250 w/ 55 gr bullet at 600 yds


Speed isnt always the only factor to consider when shooting more than a few hundred yds. at target or Varmit .Wind drift and retained energy goes to the 223

[Tomcat088]

Very True ,And if were talking factory loadings only the 223 will whip the 22-250 at distance,even with a slight breeze.

223 w/77gr bullet at 600 yds.

or

22-250 w/ 55 gr bullet at 600 yds


Speed isnt always the only factor to consider when shooting more than a few hundred yds. at target or Varmit .Wind drift and retained energy goes to the 223

I don't quite understand why this conversation came up, but I'll play along. We'll get into the true potential of the cartridges later, but for now, we'll play with "factory loadings".

First off, I wouldn't say that "factory loadings" for .223 "whip" the .22-250 with factory loadings. I agree with you that speed isn't everything, but it can count for a lot in some instances. The loading that I think of right off hand that has 77 grain bullets is the one from Blackhills. It's with a 77 SMK doing about 2750. That is NOT a common load, and lots of .223 rifles will not stabilize that bullet, and won't feed it from a magazine. Most people also won't consider Blackhills to be exactly "normal factory loadings". It's about as close to custom loadings as you can get without paying a custom loader, or loading it yourself. Blackhills doesn't go easy on the pressures, or "play it safe", they make serious ammunition. So in considering that particular load, just realize it's not really "normal" factory ammunition. I will also say that I've usually found Federal ammunition to be spot on, or slightly over what they advertise on the chronograph numbers, with blackhills being slightly under what they advertise.

Either way, let's run the numbers in JBM so everybody can follow, for a 77 grain SMK, .224 caliber, doing 2750 at standard temperature and pressure. At 600 yards the bullet has dropped 104.2" and has 41.7" of wind drift for a straight 10 mph crosswind. The bullet at 600 yards has 376 foot pounds of KE, and is supersonic just barely to 800 yards (does'nt make 810).

Now let's look at the Nosler custom load. It's loaded a little hotter than some ammunition, but not quite as hot as blackhills, HSM, etc. http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=949086 with this ammo. Let's take a .224 caliber bullet, 55 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip, doing 3,700 fps. At 600 yards, the bullet drops 64.8" and has 43" of wind drift for a straight crosswind at 10 mph. The bullet at 600 yards has 338 ft/lbs of KE, and is supersonic to about 870 yards.

Under those conditions, ok, the .223 BARELY edges out the .22-250 for for wind drift and kinetic energy. It has a whopping 1.3" less wind drift, and 38 more foot pounds. I'd love to see the shooter who was good enough to read the wind well enough, and hold the .13" per mile an hour at 600 yards with a .224 caliber projectile. I'm sorry, the difference is pretty much negligable, as is 38 ft-lbs of energy. What difference I find SIGNIFICANT is the amount of difference in the drop for the two cartridges. They are almost dead even in the wind and KE, but the .223 has 39.4" MORE drop. So for the same distance, the .223 takes roughly 3.28 more feet of elevation to do the same thing. That's pretty significant, and it results in a pretty significant difference in trajectory, maximum point blank range, etc.

So let's be real, the .223 doesn't whip the .22-250 even when it had the advantage of heavy bullets, with high BC's, in pretty much a hot custom load; it's able to hang with the .22-250 to 600 yards. HSM has a loading, which is also pretty much custom, that pushes 55 grain bergers. IF they push those particular bullets at 3700 fps or faster, they'll BEST the .223 load sthat we just talked about. The Bergers have a much better BC, and they will retain their velocity and KE further than the Nosler Ballistic tip. When you look at the true long range potential of the two, and how far they're supersonic to, you see that the .22-250's velocity pays off, and it'll be more consistent to a longer range. Honestly, it's silly to even talk about those distances because almost nobody is going to shoot a .224 caliber projectile that far. Most of the time it's just people throwing some rounds downrange to see what it can do.

Now then, let's stop the playing along and take off the gloves. Everybody who is a real varminter or who knows much about the .22-250 knows that NO factory loadings are even close to the potential of the cartridge. It's VERY common to hear of people pushing 55 grain bullets to 3,900 fps or faster. You don't see factory loadings like this because nobody knows what factory rifles with different chamber specs, different temperatures, people allowing rounds to cook in the chamber, etc; what will happen. It's so much powder and such a high pressure round, that the ammunition manufacturers don't want the liability, and they load everything WAY down. If you look at case capacity, you just can't push the .223 as hard as you can the .22-250; that's just how it is. The load we looked at earlier was pretty hot, while the one for the .22-250 is pretty mild-moderate. Realistically, if you're pushing the .22-250 with 55 grain bergers at even 3800 fps, it SMOKES the .223. Pretty much, any bullet, the .22-250 can push faster. It doesn't matter what the weight is, since it has more case capacity, it'll push the same weight of bullet faster, so it'll have less wind drift and drop.

Some people say it's not really fair to go the same weight of bullet as fast as the cartridge can push them. It's not really fair either to pick some slow down played .22-250 rounds, and compare them to a pretty hot load in .223 with a bullet that has every advantage in the book. Even when you're comparing a GOOD load for the .223 against a decent load for the .22-250, the .223 barely keeps up. I'm sorry, but I just feel like you're trying to spin things. I don't mean that the .22-250 is a better caliber, that's a subjective thing. The .22-250 bests the .223 EVERY TIME, BUT it does it at quite the cost. You're burning more paper, have much shorter brass life, and you're gonna burn up barrels a LOT faster. Different people measure "better" different ways, but on sheer ballistics alone, there's no way that you can say the advantage goes to the .223. Only when you put strict limitations on bullet selection, velocities, etc. and water things down to factory loads, is this comparison possible.

If you want to make things interesting though, start looking at the .223 AI. If it's in a rifle with heavy VLD bullets, long throated chamber, and a good load; things get really interesting. When you look at the big long term picture, performance per grain of powder, and the barrel life; it makes a pretty convincing case. Sorry, but the standard .223 doesn't hardly hold a candle to the .22-250.

[Motown]

If you are looking to keep the distance under 300 yards i would definately look at the 223 rem especially as it was mentioned if you do not reload your own ammo. A couple possible rifles could be either a Remington 700 SPS Varmint or Savage offers a wide variety of target/varmint rifles in this caliber. Another great and accurate rifle that i personally own and love is the Tikka T3 Varmint that will shoot 1/2- 3/4 inch groups at 200 yards all day long with reloads or factory ammo. Also make sure to keep the twist rate of the rifle in mind. If you think you might possibly be shooting past 300 yards then you may want to look toward a 1-8 or 1-9 twist that will shoot heavier bullets.