Any advantages over the 45-70 gov?

[mrnyman]

Hi everyone , i hope you more knowledgeable people than i am can help me out with this question.

Does the 450 Bushmaster, .500 Beowulf or the .450 Socom rounds have any Ballistic advantages over the venerable .45-70 ?

I am Torn between getting a Marlin .45-70 Guide Gun or Getting a .450 socom or Beowulf

So what sayest ye?
Thanks, Nyman

[Noah_Zark]

I don't own anything in 450 Bushmaster, .500 Beowulf or the .450 Socom, which are all "wildcat" cartridges developed to fit the AR platform. All three big-bore AR wildcats are roughly equivalent to the 45-70 when compared to 300 gr JSP 45-70 loads pushing 2100-2300 fps and energy levels from 2800-3200 ft-lbf. This would apply to 45-70 loads suitable for Marlin leverguns, late-model Browning and Winchester 1886 repros, some Sharps repros, TC Contenders, and the NEF single-shot guns. The 45-70 load stated above is NOT suitable for Trapdoor Springfields.

Reader's Digest version -- about the same, compared to the right 45-70 load, in 45-70 guns built for it.

Noah

[knight0334]

Those cartridges do not offer any better ballistics over the 45-70, provided that you do not use a Trapdoor or most Sharps rifles.

In the proper gun chambered for 45-70, the 45-70's case capacity will allow that cartridge to exceed far and wide the abilities of any of the other cartridges listed for comparison.

The Marlin Guide Gun is capable of level #2 pressures, which would put energy levels in the 3000 to 3800ftlbs of energy area.

More case capacity = more room to stuff powder in = more velocity. The 45-70 can operate at lower pressures too while retaining higher velocities.

Another thing to consider - 45-70 ammo or cases can be found just about anywhere.

[knight0334]

Note: the .45-70 listing below doesn't even touch full capabilities of that cartridge.


.458 SOCOM
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
250 gr (16 g) 609.6 m/s (2,000 ft/s) 2,938 J (2,167 ft·lbf)
300 gr (19 g) 580 m/s (1,900 ft/s) 3,261 J (2,405 ft·lbf)
600 gr (39 g) 304.8 m/s (1,000 ft/s) 1,811 J (1,336 ft·lbf)

.450 Bushmaster
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
250 gr (16 g) SST 2,214 ft/s (675 m/s) 2,722 ft·lbf (3,691 J)

.50 Beowolf
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
300 gr (19 g) Speer Gold Dot 1,870 ft/s (570 m/s) 2,330 ft·lbf (3,160 J)
325 gr (21.1 g) Speer HP 2,010 ft/s (610 m/s) 2,916 ft·lbf (3,954 J)
334 gr (21.6 g) Rainer FMJ 1,980 ft/s (600 m/s) 2,908 ft·lbf (3,943 J)
334 gr (21.6 g) Rainer HP 1,980 ft/s (600 m/s) 2,908 ft·lbf (3,943 J)
400 gr (26 g) Hawk JSP 1,875 ft/s (572 m/s) 3,123 ft·lbf (4,234 J)


.45-70 Government
Bullet weight/type Velocity Energy
300 (Trapdoor) Lead PB 1,597 ft/s (487 m/s) 1,699 ft·lbf (2,304 J)
405 (Trapdoor) Lead FN 1,394 ft/s (425 m/s) 1,748 ft·lbf (2,370 J)
300 (Standard) JHP 2,069 ft/s (631 m/s) 2,852 ft·lbf (3,867 J)
300 (Strong) JHP 2,275 ft/s (693 m/s) 3,449 ft·lbf (4,676 J)

[Stooperzero]

45-70 is cheaper to load and shoot too.

[Noah_Zark]

And the 45-70 is a cartridge of such dimensions that weapons chambered for it could be classified as "crew served."

Noah

[knight0334]

And the 45-70 is a cartridge of such dimensions that weapons chambered for it could be classified as "crew served."

Noah

LOL!

How many does it take to handle my 45-120.. 2.1" case vs 3.25" case..

[mrnyman]

Thanks guys, just what i wanted to hear, i am going to get the Marlin GG in Stainless and scope it nicely, this way i can hunt with it too unlike the .450 socom or Beowulf.

And the ammo is readily available.

Thanks, Nyman

[Grizz2720]

Of course the 45-70 is a crewed serve round. The Gatling gun was 45-70

[Steelblitz]

If I had to roam the wilderness in Alaska, I'd take my Marlin guide gun in 45/70 over anything else I own or the other choices you present. It will take down any North American game soundly.