To All You Permit Nazis - LTCF=License=Permit

**Kratos** · July 29th, 2010, 11:56 AM

EDIT - Before reading, try to remember something that gave you a positive view of yourself.

First of all, the importance of language is to convey something. If an LEO asks for your gun permit, you know he is referring to your LTCF.

Secondly, just because it says License To Carry Firearms, does not mean it is not also a permit. Most people say turn signal, I call it a turning indicator. Neither is more correct then the other.

To those that insist on "correcting" every reference to a LTCF being a permit, is that your way asserting your knowledge of PA firearm laws, or is it a deeper issue? Whatever the case may be, I just wanted to let you know it is correct to refer to a LTCF as a permit or a license.

Main Entry: per·mit
Pronunciation: \ˈpər-ˌmit, pər-ˈ\
Function: noun
Date: 1682

1 : a written warrant or license granted by one having authority <a gun permit>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/permit%5B2%5D

EDIT - Just wanted to clarify this is not about the use of CCW Permit in lieu of LTCF.

Here's an illustration of my point.

Grumpy Old Man - "You got a permit for that thing son?"(Tries not to fall asleep)

Elitist Gun Owner - "No, but I have a license for it."(Thinks to himself about how clever he is)

Me - "If you have a license, you also have a permit, because they mean the exact same thing!"(Think to myself how the Elitist gun owner is not clever at all)

**Philbert** · July 29th, 2010, 11:58 AM

I think the biggest problem is not "permit" but rather "concealed carry permit". It gives the misleading impression that you only need the LTCF for concealed carry.

**DavidTM** · July 29th, 2010, 12:00 PM

But even more importantly, does any of this matter?

**Metz** · July 29th, 2010, 12:05 PM

Originally Posted by DavidTM

But even more importantly, does any of this matter?

Well, some people do make a big deal out of it.

**bnkrtstk** · July 29th, 2010, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by Philbert

I think the biggest problem is not "permit" but rather "concealed carry permit". It gives the misleading impression that you only need the LTCF for concealed carry.

Try legalling carrying concealed without it.

Originally Posted by DavidTM

But even more importantly, does any of this matter?

Originally Posted by Metz

Well, some people do make a big deal out of it.

**CHEMICAL** · July 29th, 2010, 12:13 PM

I posted this same basic thing a while ago

**cigarmanpa** · July 29th, 2010, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

First of all, the importance of language is to convey something. If an LEO asks for your gun permit, you know he is referring to your LTCF.

Secondly, just because it says License To Carry Firearms, does not mean it is not also a permit. Most people say turn signal, I call it a turning indicator. Neither is more correct then the other.

To those that insist on "correcting" every reference to a LTCF being a permit, is that your way asserting your knowledge of PA firearm laws, or is it a deeper issue? Whatever the case may be, I just wanted to let you know it is correct to refer to a LTCF as a permit or a license.

the state doesn't permit me to have a gun, they permit me to drive. The fact that I'm an American permits me to have a gun. Same with carrying. the second amendment permits me to carry a gun, the state has added it's own laws so that I need to be licensed to do so.

licenses and permits are different my friend.

**Nate7667** · July 29th, 2010, 12:18 PM

Stop calling it a permit......you will ruin it for everyone

**Pa. Patriot** · July 29th, 2010, 12:22 PM

Originally Posted by Kratos

First of all, the importance of language is to convey something. If an LEO asks for your gun permit, you know he is referring to your LTCF.

Secondly, just because it says License To Carry Firearms, does not mean it is not also a permit. Most people say turn signal, I call it a turning indicator. Neither is more correct then the other.

Opinion. Not sure what the big deal is on either side of this. Some folks point out that it is a "license". I do not see any hostility in their pointing this out. However...

Originally Posted by Kratos

To those that insist on "correcting" every reference to a LTCF being a permit, is that your way asserting your knowledge of PA firearm laws, or is it a deeper issue? Whatever the case may be, I just wanted to let you know it is correct to refer to a LTCF as a permit or a license.

Really no need to be inflammatory over such a benign issue.

**HiredGoon** · July 29th, 2010, 12:25 PM

While a license may be the same basic thing as a permit, our LTCF reads LICENSE TO CARRY FIREARMS right on the front of it. So it is a license.

It is also referred to as a license on the application and in the statutes....

(except for one place where it is called a permit)

http://forum.pafoa.org/concealed-ope...ed-permit.html