Is the 40 cal not as accurate as the 45 or 38 supoer?

[Neko456]

Is the 40 cal not as accurate as 45acp or 38 super? I ask because most of the top self defense and open shooters of national IPSC, Bianchi Cup, Steel challenge or other USPSA events shoot 45acp or 38 super at one point you saw some 40 cal but now most are back to the two proven rounds. is the 40 cal not measuring up?

How well does the accurate 9mm work at these event? I hear there is a power level that is a concern.

[ChamberedRound]

Is the 40 cal not as accurate as 45acp or 38 super? I ask because most of the top self defense and open shooters of national IPSC, Bianchi Cup, Steel challenge or other USPSA events shoot 45acp or 38 super at one point you saw some 40 cal but now most are back to the two proven rounds. is the 40 cal not measuring up?

How well does the accurate 9mm work at these event? I hear there is a power level that is a concern.

.40 S&W uses an extremely high pressure loading, higher then either .38 super or .45ACP. Higher pressure = more recoil, and more recoil means more time needed for follow up shots. However, although it's a high pressure, it's also a high speed round, and high speed = flatter trajectory, which usually means more potential for accuracy, as long as the recoil can be managed.

.45ACP is loaded to relatively low pressures, but due to its weight and lower speeds than .40 S&W or .38 Super, it usually has a more arcing trajectory.

.38 super is lower pressure than .40 S&W, and although is a higher pressure than .45ACP, the size difference typically means lower recoil. In addition, the .38 super loadings can typically push a bullet at faster speeds than comparable loadings for .45ACP, which means flatter trajectory. Couple that with the availability of a number of custom loadings in .38 Super specifically designed for competitive shooting, and I'd say .38 is the cartridge of choice.

In addition, the lower pressures of the .45ACP and .38 Super relative to .40 S&W make the former cartridges easier to reload or make custom loads.

As for 9mm, I'd have to believe that it would perform on par with .38 Super, although .38 Super typically has a flatter trajectory due to higher velocities.

From the Wiki page on the .38 Super:

The .38 Super has made a huge comeback in IPSC and USPSA sports shooting raceguns, particularly when equipped with a compensator, because it meets the minimum power factor to be considered a "Major" charge, while having much more manageable recoil than .45 ACP. Recoil from the .38 Super +P is comparable to that of the 9x19 Parabellum in a pistol.

This would infer that the 9mm is not considered a "Major" charge for competitions requiring such.

Additional Wiki Pages on the .45ACP and .40S&W

Note that in the end, if the competition specifies a certain cartridge, then that's the one everyone has to shoot. However, if one is comparing the merits of each cartridge with respect to competitive shooting, I'd say the preference is:

- .38 Super
- .45 ACP
- .40 S&W

This is obviously subjective, and as with the OP, I'd welcome insight and discussion from others who have experience in competitive shooting (I have none ).

[Azzy]

For the most part, given that modern firearms are made very well, accuracy is in the hand of the gun holder

[RobW]

It is an interesting question. Most of the "really really super serious" accuracy work in autoloading handguns relates to Bullseye or NRA Conventional Pistol for the sticklers. In that discipline, the .45 is top of the heap accuracy wise. Bullseye gunsmiths will typically guarantee 2" groups at 50 yards. The .38 special is a close second. 9mm is a more recent addition, but has been developed to the point of being competitive due to the effors of the Army Marksmanship unit. IIRC David Sams was the 'smith who led the charge developing the 9mm.

.38 Super (and cousins) is highly developed in IPSC circles, although I can't speak firsthand to any accuracy claims/guarantees. I can say that I've seen plenty of tackdrivers at the range and in competition. Same for .40 Limited customs, again without any firsthand reference to "Bullseye" levels of accuracy.

The question is - do other cartridges have the same (untapped) potential for accuracy? We'll probably never find out, as there is a strong "don't reinvent the wheel" incentive - especially among Bullseye shooters. The question comes up on the Bullseye list every once in a while, and gets the same answer - why bother, build a .45.

There is a certain logic to this - one third of the course of fire specifies a .45. If you have to build a .45, why build two handguns? The most common answer is less recoil, and that's where .38's and 9mm's and even .32 S&W's (Euro guns, mostly) get mentioned. Nobody ever says "I'm going to build a .40 for Centerfire" as it makes no sense, so no real development takes place.

--RobW

Is the 40 cal not as accurate as 45acp or 38 super? I ask because most of the top self defense and open shooters of national IPSC, Bianchi Cup, Steel challenge or other USPSA events shoot 45acp or 38 super at one point you saw some 40 cal but now most are back to the two proven rounds. is the 40 cal not measuring up?

How well does the accurate 9mm work at these event? I hear there is a power level that is a concern.

[Neko456]

In so summarizing the input the 40 cal is caught into a traditional why build a 40 cal when the 38 super and 45 ACP are proven. And into the same cup that the 357 magnum is in a Great self defense round but too much recoil/recovering time to compete against the more proven 45acp or 38 super.

The Glock is one of main pistols used in IPSC , I know from my own experience it does not shoot below factory fps ammo well. Maybe a 1911 design pistol could do it well because they seem to shoot target SWC or TMJ well.

I thought that IPSC was based on factory self defense guning. The 357 mag and 40 cal can compete but they won't win. But are far more common in the holster of LEO and armed citizen in the real world. Of course 45 acp is right in there in both arenas.

[Dredly]

isn't .38 super a really expensive round?

[RobW]

Supply and demand for factory ammo, I suppose. If you load your own, small pistol primers are generic and it uses the same heads as 9mm. You can't get cheap surplus brass like you can for 9mm and .40, so that would bump it up a bit.

isn't .38 super a really expensive round?

[knight0334]

Accuracy is less of a cartridge issue than it is a gun or shooter issue.

There is nothing in the world that would make a 40 caliber gun less accurate than a 45acp or 38 super so long as the gun is properly made and has the correct rifling twist rate.

40S&W is just as accurate as any other cartridge. If there is an accuracy issue, the fault lies 99% of the time on the person pulling the trigger.

[ForwardAssist]

Neko,

Tons of info at Brian Enos's site.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/

[RobW]

Practical accuracy is a shooter issue. Mechanical accuracy is mostly a gun issue. Theoretical accuracy potential for a given cartridge is what we are discussing. There most definitely is a "theory" of accuracy potential regarding case capacity to bore and bearing surface, pressure curve, etc. Empirically, somebody has to actually build and test guns to see if the 'theoretical' differences have any practical impact. My point was, don't hold your breath waiting as those who care enough to do this type of work probably won't bother with an 'unproven' cartridge.

--Rob

Accuracy is less of a cartridge issue than it is a gun or shooter issue.

There is nothing in the world that would make a 40 caliber gun less accurate than a 45acp or 38 super so long as the gun is properly made and has the correct rifling twist rate.

40S&W is just as accurate as any other cartridge. If there is an accuracy issue, the fault lies 99% of the time on the person pulling the trigger.