Violation of gun rights by Allegheny County

[HiredGoon]

So...what happens to the guns Philly and other cops confiscate and never return?
Do they stay in storage forever...do they get melted down...do they get auctioned or sold off to gun dealers or... our worst nightmare...the cops get to raid the goodie room and take what they want (un-offically of course)

[twoeggsup]

So...what happens to the guns Philly and other cops confiscate and never return?
Do they stay in storage forever...do they get melted down...do they get auctioned or sold off to gun dealers or... our worst nightmare...the cops get to raid the goodie room and take what they want (un-offically of course)

The last would of course be the worst, then the serial number could be ground off and now there's a good 'drop piece' for those just in case events.

[64Jeeper]

So...what happens to the guns Philly and other cops confiscate and never return?
Do they stay in storage forever...do they get melted down...do they get auctioned or sold off to gun dealers or... our worst nightmare...the cops get to raid the goodie room and take what they want (un-offically of course)

Here in Spring City, the bastards melted them all down for lamp posts!!!!

[phillykev]

From the Philadelphia Inquirer, emphasis mine:

Seized guns resold by police

Upper Darby's department is under investigation for past sales of confiscated and surrendered weapons to shops.

Hundreds of guns seized by Upper Darby police are back in circulation, many after police supplied them to two of the region's most notorious gun shops, The Inquirer has learned.

These guns included illegal sawed-off shotguns and assault rifles. Just last month, special-education students found one of Upper Darby's confiscated guns as they collected litter near their school.

One of the dealers who sold Upper Darby's weapons is now in prison for selling guns to felons. "I don't care if you kill a cop," he told an undercover federal agent wearing a wire.

The second shop owner lost his license after authorities linked guns he sold to 19 Philadelphia homicides, including the killing of a police officer.

"This involves hundreds of guns," said retired police detective Ray Britt, one of four current and former officers who told The Inquirer that police routinely resold seized firearms.

"Lots of people knew it was happening, and some officers tried to stop it," Britt said. "But it went on for years."

<snip>

Under Pennsylvania law, police departments may resell seized or donated guns. In this case, ATF agents are trying to determine whether the proceeds from the guns went back to the township - or into the pockets of the officers, sources said.
An ATF spokesman declined to comment.

Upper Darby Police Chief Michael Chitwood said an ATF agent had visited him two weeks ago. He said he was cooperating.

"I have not seen anything - anything - that says that the Upper Darby Police Department illegally took guns out of here and sold them to anybody else," said Chitwood, who became chief of the 127-member force in August 2005, after all the transfers apparently had stopped.

But he added: "What happened prior to me coming here, I'm not responsible for, I wasn't involved in, I don't know."

Vincent J. Ficchi was Upper Darby's police chief for 11 years before retiring in July 2005. He did not respond to phone calls and visits to his homes in Upper Darby and Somers Point, N.J.

<snip>

Sales worried some officers

In interviews, several current and former Upper Darby officers said the practice had troubled them.

"I tried to stop it," said one officer who asked not to be identified because he feared repercussions. He said a supervisor had told him to mind his own business.

"They beat you down. After a while, you try to justify it. You get to thinking what they're doing is OK. But I wake up at night worrying about where the guns went."

Harry T. Davis, a retired senior Upper Darby officer, called it a "a moral issue."
"It sickens me," he said of the gun selling.

Britt, the former detective, said the department had kept seized guns in haphazard fashion, many dumped in cardboard boxes on the second floor of police headquarters. Officers came and went with no controls on what they carried out, Britt said.

And Davis, an accountant by training, said the department's record-keeping was abysmal. "There's no chain of evidence in Upper Darby," he said.

Britt said gun seizures increased dramatically after 2001, when patrol officers were asked to confiscate weapons whenever there was a domestic dispute.

"The patrol officers would say, 'We're going to take your guns until you cool down,' " Britt said.

"Officers would bring armloads to the second-floor detective room," he said. "I've seen as many as 20 to 25 guns come in at a time.

The guns typically were not returned, Britt said. If owners complained, he said, they were told that they'd have to spend a lot of money hiring lawyers and getting a court order.Upper Darby had no trouble finding outlets for guns.

<snip>

According to one ATF document, a senior Upper Darby officer, Capt. George Rhoades, said police had supplied weapons to three gun shops.

One of them was Lou's Loans on 69th Street in Upper Darby, known for more than a decade as a problematic gun dealer.

Between 1995 and 1997, the ATF traced 111 guns used in Philadelphia crimes to Lou's.

Later, ATF agents traced weapons sold there to 19 Philadelphia homicides, including the 1996 murder of Philadelphia Police Officer Lauretha Vaird.

Finally, in July 2006, ATF revoked Lou's federal gun license.

Soon afterward, the Brady Center to Prevent Gun Violence issued a report on the shop, titled "Lethal Lou's." It quoted Rhoades.

"Every time you turn around another crime is being committed with a Lou's gun," he said. "If Lou's tightened their sales even a little bit, how many people would have been saved?"

Reached this month, Rhoades declined to be interviewed.

<snip>

A frightening find

In mid-April, a group of students from the Kanner Learning Center, a school for mentally challenged children in West Whiteland Township, were on a nature walk outside the school.

As part of their walks, the students collect trash thrown from cars using nearby Boot Road and Kirkland Avenue.

Hidden in a plastic shopping bag dumped in the brush, the children found a pistol.

West Whiteland Police Chief Ralph Burton called the discovery "very scary," the kind of thing that every parent fears.

When West Whiteland police traced the gun, they learned that it had once been owned by a suicidal woman in another town. Her worried family had wanted to get it out of her hands. So they called their local police, who took it.



I can't find the original article online, but this version with the snips has most of the pertinent info I recall.
That police department?

Upper Darby.

[QuackXP]

im not sure i would want it back after something like that was done with it.

I think it's shitty that peoples property can be seized like this and not returned in a timely matter.

But if I was in the OP's situation I doubt I would even want it back or want to sell it.

[Prof. Chaos]

I think it's shitty that peoples property can be seized like this and not returned in a timely matter.

But if I was in the OP's situation I doubt I would even want it back or want to sell it.

i definitely agree about taking someones property but i believe this case may be a special one.

[harley104]

On March 31st of this year, my Step-father was at my home, took my LEGALLY registered firearm from my drawer, and committed suicide; I was at work at the time and found him when I got home.

The local Police were dispatched, as well as County Homocide. The 2 detectives took the gun for testing, without a receipt. A Coroner's report was issued and death certificate to me (within 2 days). On both, it was listed as a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound. I was told it could take 6-8 weeks; 3-4 months, and now, up to year to get it back. The gun is currently at the County Coroner's office which houses the County test facility. The gun is ready to be released back to County Homocide. Sit back and listen to what I have to do too get it back:

1--Go to the clerk of courts and fill out paperwork requesting "MY" firearm back.
2--Then a court order will be issued for me to appear in front of a Judge.
3--It will be up to his discretion as to whether I will get the firearm back.

I am a law abiding citizen and a responsible gun owner. I do not see why I have to incur costs and time to retrieve something that is rightfully mine and legally owned. I should point out, there is a real possibility I will never get it back. This case is closed and the evidence no longer needed, and the gun WAS NOT used in the commission of a crime.

I need help....I have gotten nothing but the runaround from the County.

Are we all missing a point here? if the firearm was secure then this may not have happened, or if kids were involved then the opinion on this matter would be diff. WE are responsible for our firearms and they should be secured at all times

[whoshisface]

do you legally have to have a lawyer to get this property back? If not do it on your own! I most certantly would try without a lawyer if possible.

[Emptymag]

On March 31st of this year, my Step-father was at my home, took my LEGALLY registered firearm from my drawer, and committed suicide; I was at work at the time and found him when I got home.

The local Police were dispatched, as well as County Homocide. The 2 detectives took the gun for testing, without a receipt. A Coroner's report was issued and death certificate to me (within 2 days). On both, it was listed as a "self-inflicted" gunshot wound. I was told it could take 6-8 weeks; 3-4 months, and now, up to year to get it back. The gun is currently at the County Coroner's office which houses the County test facility. The gun is ready to be released back to County Homocide. Sit back and listen to what I have to do too get it back:

1--Go to the clerk of courts and fill out paperwork requesting "MY" firearm back.
2--Then a court order will be issued for me to appear in front of a Judge.
3--It will be up to his discretion as to whether I will get the firearm back.

I am a law abiding citizen and a responsible gun owner. I do not see why I have to incur costs and time to retrieve something that is rightfully mine and legally owned. I should point out, there is a real possibility I will never get it back. This case is closed and the evidence no longer needed, and the gun WAS NOT used in the commission of a crime.

I need help....I have gotten nothing but the runaround from the County.

Wow. First of all, I'm sorry for the loss of your step-father and what that must have been like.

It's a shame that all this nonsense takes place when it should be a simple matter of "OK, were finished with this, you can come pick it up".
Appear before a judge? His discretion? Huh?

Many anti-gun people would question whether you are "responsible". You know, not keeping your handgun unloaded, with a trigger lock installed, "safely" stored in an underground bunker, with no ammo stored in the same building.

Are we all missing a point here? if the firearm was secure then this may not have happened, or if kids were involved then the opinion on this matter would be diff. WE are responsible for our firearms and they should be secured at all times

Wait. I guess it isn't just "them".



There are a lot of "ifs" and "maybes" in life.
Without knowing the specifics of this situation, I refuse to put any blame on an adult who did nothing wrong in the legal sense, and perhaps not even morally.

[YBNORMAL]

Are we all missing a point here? if the firearm was secure then this may not have happened, or if kids were involved then the opinion on this matter would be diff. WE are responsible for our firearms and they should be secured at all times

The reason the opinions would be different with kids is that "most" kids are deamed to be not responsible enough to have loaded/unloaded firearms around. Thus, we as parents don't give them the chance to make the ultimate mistake. This was a grown man that decided to end his life. For you to try to lay the blame/responsibility on the OP is disturbing at best.

We (as adults) are responsible for our firearms, no argument there from me. The point you seem to miss is that We (as adults) are also responsible for our own actions.