Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Question Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Hi all.
    Firstly let me say thanks for the great forums and web content.

    I have a question about using my firearm against an animal.
    Hypothetically: I am in my front yard with my wife and kids and dog which is on a rope AND I am carrying my sidearm (I have a concealed carry permit). A pit bull, off the leash, no owner around, runs on to my property and attacks my dog, my kids try to separate the dogs, I am at this point fearing for the safety of my kids, wife, my self, and my dog (a family member).
    Am I within my rights to shoot the attacking dog (let me say that I love dogs and would take no pleasure in doing such a thing)?

    Thanks for taking the time to read and respond (and I do understand that your answers are opinions and do no constitute legal advice )

    Thanks again,
    Albert

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Personaly I would never shoot a dog while protecting a dog.

    BUT

    In your case, you feared that once the dog was done chewing on yours? You feared for the safety and lives of your children and then yes in MY OPINION you could shoot the dog.

    In other words.

    Officer I was sure the dog was going to turn and attack my children and THAT is why I shot it!

    JMHO

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Animals are considered property. They are not family members. I do not need to know how close and dear animals are to their families. I have a house full of cats, ferrets and a dog. Trust me, I know. The self-defense laws do not apply as such.

    However, is your fear that the dog could attack your family reasonable? Could be.

    Would I shoot the dog in the same situation? Probably.

    Could the shooter looked to be charged with discharging a firearm? Endangering others? Perhaps.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    it is hard to give a blanket answer to questions like that. but, as i am picturing the scenario you outlined, imho, yes, you would be quite justified in using deadly force against the attacking dog.

    there are statutes that specifically permit killing dogs that are attacking people or even other dogs.

    i am not a lawyer, though.

    ETA: here is the statute:

    from http://www.animallaw.info/statutes/s...9_502.htm#s501

    § 459-501. Killing dogs; dogs as nuisances

    (a) Legal to kill certain dogs.--Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such a dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act. There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing.

    (b) Private nuisance.--Any dog that enters any field or enclosure where domestic animals are confined, provided that the enclosure is adequate for the purpose intended, shall constitute a private nuisance, and the owner or tenant of such field, or their agent or servant, may detain such dog and turn it over to the local police authority or State dog warden or employee of the department. While so detained, the dog shall be treated in a humane manner.

    (c) Licensed dogs not included.--Licensed dogs, when accompanied by their owner or handler, shall not be included under the provisions of this section unless caught in the act of pursuing, wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing any dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings.

    (d) Repealed. 1990, May 31, P.L. 213, No. 46, effective in 60 days.
    Last edited by LittleRedToyota; July 15th, 2010 at 02:39 PM.
    F*S=k

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    I don't encourage the shooting of other people's pets.

    But if you're actively protecting your children from a dog that's biting right now, then the threshold for using force, even deadly force, against that attacking dog is pretty low, limited only by the "cruelty to animals" statutes.

    I've heard too many stories of self-righteous animal haters (not you, but others) who shoot other people's dogs if they look at them funny. Some of them are cops, who routinely kill any dog roaming "free" inside a home where they're executing a search warrant, or they open car doors and let the dog out, then shoot the dog for being out. Dogs are higher on the scale than household appliances, they are living creatures who feel pain and fear, but they don't understand our rules. Killing a dog shouldn't be Plan A.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    As a few people have already said, yes it would be legal to shoot it if it attacked your dog, if the dog is not wearing a collar it would be legal to shoot it as soon as it stepped on your property, though obviously I wouldn't advise it if you live in-town. Personally I have no problem with shooting another dog to protect your own, the other dog shouldn't be running loose on your property. It may sound cold, but I don't see a problem with shooting stray cats and dogs, they kill huge numbers of native wildlife, carry diseases, and they attack people, livestock, and pets. The statute I found also allows the killing of any dog pursuing or attacking game animals as well.

  7. #7
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    Thumbs up Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Wow: Thank you all for your valued opinions and reference links.

    The reason I ask is that there is actually a pit-bull that gets loose on my street and on two occasions it attacked my dog, in my yard, and my kids tried to separate them. Upto know I have been able to separate them with a considerable kick to the pit-bull. I fear that this dog will get loose again and my kids won' t be so lucky.
    Of course the owner of the pit does not in an way feel responsible...

    I will read the references you all have posted and chat with my lawyer ($$$).

    Keep up the good work.

    Thanks
    albert

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertLotito View Post
    Wow: Thank you all for your valued opinions and reference links.

    The reason I ask is that there is actually a pit-bull that gets loose on my street and on two occasions it attacked my dog, in my yard, and my kids tried to separate them. Upto know I have been able to separate them with a considerable kick to the pit-bull. I fear that this dog will get loose again and my kids won' t be so lucky.
    Of course the owner of the pit does not in an way feel responsible...

    I will read the references you all have posted and chat with my lawyer ($$$).

    Keep up the good work.

    Thanks
    albert
    If the owner is going to be an ass,next time call animal control!
    NRA life member/ILA/PVA/Whittington Center sponsor
    GOA member/Second Amendment Foundation member
    NAHC life member/KECA founding committee member

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Quote Originally Posted by FCastle88 View Post
    As a few people have already said, yes it would be legal to shoot it if it attacked your dog, if the dog is not wearing a collar it would be legal to shoot it as soon as it stepped on your property, . . .
    You can't legally shoot a dog for trespassing.

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertLotito View Post
    . . .
    Of course the owner of the pit does not in an way feel responsible...
    . . .
    This is why we have police, the courts, and lawyers. Because if you rely on other people to voluntarily do the right thing after they harm you, you will mostly be disappointed. Good, careful people who are prone to do the right thing are less likely to have negligently caused you harm in the first place, so that once things get to the point that you've been harmed, odds are that it was one of the dirtbags who did it.

    Dirtbags will always argue their rights, but refuse to see their responsibilities. It's like arguing with idiots on the Internet, if you stay in the thread waiting for them to admit they are wrong, you'd better bring a bag lunch.

    There was a time when professional chess matches were untimed; that ended after a few unethical players simply refused to concede defeat or to make their next move once they recognized that they couldn't win. Now we have the Web, instead, where nobody is too dumb to continue posting the same nonsense over and over.

    Anyway, don't shoot the dog until you have no other choice. You have a house and a door, dogs can't work the door handles (no thumbs, alas) so you can keep them at bay fairly easily, while you wait for Animal Control to show up.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Question Regarding deadly force against an animal

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbertLotito View Post
    Hi all.
    Firstly let me say thanks for the great forums and web content.

    I have a question about using my firearm against an animal.
    Hypothetically: I am in my front yard with my wife and kids and dog which is on a rope AND I am carrying my sidearm (I have a concealed carry permit). A pit bull, off the leash, no owner around, runs on to my property and attacks my dog, my kids try to separate the dogs, I am at this point fearing for the safety of my kids, wife, my self, and my dog (a family member).
    Am I within my rights to shoot the attacking dog (let me say that I love dogs and would take no pleasure in doing such a thing)?

    Thanks for taking the time to read and respond (and I do understand that your answers are opinions and do no constitute legal advice )

    Thanks again,
    Albert
    Especially, Albert, if your dog were a Labrador and the other dog were to try to bite it in the penis ...



    Remixed!


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