No ltcf, what are transport laws for weekend in hotel?

[Recoil]

In general I agree with your sentiments but there is a practical component to the 'question in hand' that cannot be ignored

I wouldn't call it 'cowering' but prefer to call it being cautious given the lack of clear guidance as to the involved laws interpretations/applications as well as what we perceive as rights and what the 'system' deems as those rights. As a matter of principle I agree with you that our rights are extensive and inviolate. On a pragmatc level, however, I must recognize that the 'system' gets the final say as to any retribution for violating their established laws.

As to the subject of our thread here, I'm not saying that the OP's brother would not be successful in defending against a charge of illegal vehicle carry (18 a CSA 6106) using (b)(8) vacation dwelling. But by the same token I cannot assuage real and reasonable fears that the defense could just as likely fail primarily because the definition of terms, to the best of my knowledge, have not been established by statute or case law.


Sure we arm-chair lawyers can collectively debate what seems reasonable and proffer informed or uninformed opinions but we do so safe from any reprecussions save some hard feeling or neg reps on the forum - that's not the case for the OP's brother.

Consider that if the OP's brother elects to take the less cautious suggestions and finds himself subsequently convicted of 6106 violation he will be Federally prohibited from touching a gun or even a bullet for the rest of his life. Because of that I am trying to convey for him that this is not a trivial decision and ask him 'is it worth the risk'?.

Being a cautious person I know what I would do in his circumstances but, as laymen, we can only provide the sundry perspectives from a group debate but cannot provide any dispositive determinations. Its his decision and his risk.

Very well spoken. I respect your opinion.

[knight0334]

The hotel is a temporary lodging and would not qualify as a 'home'. Since the intent of the trip is not specifically range related (ex: attending a match requiring an overnight stay) then, IMO, he would not qualify for exception to the vehicular carry prohibition of 18 Pa CSA 6106(a) between his residence and the hotel.

The potentially applicable exceptions for which he doesn't qualify are:


You both could still go to the range and he could use your pistol since you have an LTCF but his bringing his own 'piece' should be discouraged.

It will probably qualify as a "vacation or recreational home or dwelling" under 6106(b)(8).

A person doesn't actually "move" in the sense of changing residence when going on vacation or to a recreational camp. Dwelling which is defined under Chap.5 covers just about any structure fixed or temporary.

[XJeffro]

I agree, vehicle transportation would need to be home-hotel-range-hotel-home.

This is precisely the route that would be taken. No stops for food, no stops for ammo, etc. Then again, I would be driving between all these places anyway, so it really wouldn't matter since I have my LTCF. I guess the question would really only involve my brother transporting his firearm from his home to the hotel, and from the hotel to his home. And according to the "vacation or recreational home or dwelling" part of the law, I think that he would be covered under that for legal transport of his firearm.

[tlgpa]

Not here - sorry. There's far too much loose definitions of 'dwelling', 'abode', etc being bandied about that makes me very uneasy. IANAL but I've seen what happens to people falling down that 'Criminal Justice" rabbit hole.

I'm curious to what you'd think a "vacation or recreational dwelling" could be loosely defined as? I think it's pretty univerasal that a hotel, beach house, cabin, B&B, weekly rental, etc are clearly vacation dwellings.

I think the "moving from one place of abode to another" exception could fall into a fuzzy definition. But the vacation dwelling exception is much more clear.

To the OP's brother - "BE SURE; BE VERY SURE"

Absolutely agree. Not something you want to do without thoroughly thinking through. Perhaps speaking with a lawyer might be a good idea for some peace of mind. Wouldn't cost much for his legal interpretaion of "vacation or recreational dwelling".

If I were making this trip, I would book my hotel and print out the reservation. Print out maps from my house to the hotel and follow that route EXACTLY. Also print out directions from hotel to shooting range and follow those EXACTLY. In the event I was pulled over and the firearm becomes an issue I'd show that I'm on the route to my hotel.
Also write up an itinerary of what I'm doing on my vacation, ie: visting family, sightseeing, shooting range, etc. Keep it with my hotel papers.

[tl_3237]

As to the subject of our thread here, I'm not saying that the OP's brother would not be successful in defending against a charge of illegal vehicle carry (18 a CSA 6106) using (b)(8) vacation dwelling. But by the same token I cannot assuage real and reasonable fears that the defense could just as likely fail primarily because the definition of terms, to the best of my knowledge, have not been established by statute or case law.

It will probably qualify as a "vacation or recreational home or dwelling" under 6106(b)(8).

A person doesn't actually "move" in the sense of changing residence when going on vacation or to a recreational camp. Dwelling which is defined under Chap.5 covers just about any structure fixed or temporary.

I'm curious to what you'd think a "vacation or recreational dwelling" could be loosely defined as? I think it's pretty univerasal that a hotel, beach house, cabin, B&B, weekly rental, etc are clearly vacation dwellings.

Went back and did some more research. Found a statutory definition (below) as well as similar language in pending legislation:

18 Pa CSA 501
"Dwelling." Any building or structure though movable or
temporary, or a portion thereof, which is for the time being the
home or place of lodging of the actor.

Since a hotel would definitely seem to be 'a place of lodging' it would meet 501's definition of dwelling.

I concede the point

[PA-Joe]

Do you need a LTCF to transport a gun from your home to a hunting location? The UFC seems to only covers target practice and homes.

[tlgpa]

Do you need a LTCF to transport a gun from your home to a hunting location? The UFC seems to only covers target practice and homes.

When you say gun, do you mean rifle/shotgun? In which case, no. The LTCF only applied to firearms

"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.

As long as you are going directly from your home to your location and it's not loaded and is in a secure wrapper you don't need a LTCF.

You hunting location would be a "vacation or recreational home or dwelling".

I strongly suggest anyone who travels with a firearm get their LTCF. It makes it so much easier and safer. It enables you to make stops or changes to your trip rather than going from point A to B.

[PA-Joe]

Revolver! My hunting location may not have a home on it! Could be a SGL.