PLEASE HELP! I need Land Nav / Orienteering courses anywhere in PA????

[bleaman225]

I am VERY strongly considering joining the Army for Special Forces Initial Accession aka 18x (in fact I'm going in to meet my recruiter tomorrow morning). I want to get as much of a head start as I can with some of the subjects that people get hung up on. The main skill that I feel I need the most help with is the Land Nav aspect. Does anyone know if there's somewhere/someone reputable to train with in PA?
Thanks for any and all advice/help.

[LittleRedToyota]

the explorer's club in pittsburgh runs orienteering courses from time to time...or at least they used to...been quite awhile since i have done anything with them.

http://www.pittecp.org/

i'm sure there are other such clubs throughout the state that offer similar courses.

orienteering is actually something you can teach yourself out of a book pretty well also, imho. it's one of those things that seems a bit mystical when you don't understand it, but is actually pretty darn simple. the hardest part, imho, is just visualizing what land actually will look like from looking at a topo map and vice versa so you can correlate what you actually see looking around you to what you see on the map. btw, it is much easier in winter when you can actually see more than 100 feet in the woods.

oh, and it is *a lot* of fun.

[bleaman225]

the explorer's club in pittsburgh runs orienteering courses from time to time...or at least they used to...been quite awhile since i have done anything with them.

http://www.pittecp.org/

i'm sure there are other such clubs throughout the state that offer similar courses.

orienteering is actually something you can teach yourself out of a book pretty well also, imho. it's one of those things that seems a bit mystical when you don't understand it, but is actually pretty darn simple. the hardest part, imho, is just visualizing what land actually will look like from looking at a topo map and vice versa so you can correlate what you actually see looking around you to what you see on the map. btw, it is much easier in winter when you can actually see more than 100 feet in the woods.

oh, and it is *a lot* of fun.

Thanks! Any books you would suggest?

I also realize that I do have time to learn these things, I don't know what the DEP length is right now but I should have some summer left, I think...

[LittleRedToyota]

Thanks! Any books you would suggest?

this one is pretty good:

http://www.amazon.com/Be-Expert-Map-.../dp/0020292651

since you are preparing for the Army, perhaps...

http://www.amazon.com/U-S-Army-Readi.../dp/1592283829

you can also learn about it online for free. there are a myriad of websites that discuss it. it really isn't rocket science. some people find dealing with declination to be tricky, but it is actually pretty simple math.

here are a couple websites:

http://www.4orienteering.com/

http://www.learn-orienteering.org/old/

becoming proficient at orienteering is not really about learning lots of secrets, imho...there are just a few basics to learn and then it is a matter of just getting out in the woods and doing it--developing an eye for terrain...which can really only be done by going out and doing it.

there are also other issues that come into play like pathfinding. that is another area where there is no substitute for just going out and doing it, though, imho.

[ExCopInPhilly]

If you call your local National Guard or Reserve unit, they might be glad to help you.

[Andrew17019]

Go to the nearest ROTC program at a college and ask them for a course...most ROTC programs run Land Nav training at least twice a year, usually every month or so during the school year.

[dragonman]

You can take some time to figure out your pace count. This is how many steps you take in 100 meters. You can use any simple means such as rocks to keep track of how far you have gone. say you have 10 rocks in the left pocket,each 100 steps move one to your right pocket.

Make sure your pace count are steps you can take under heavy load and difficult terrain.

Take time to learn grid coordinates and how they tie to other maps.
4 digit grid will get you with in 1000 meters 6 digit will get you with in 100. Try to find topo maps and a protractor,always read right and up. search resection and intersection. This will get you started.

I am prior Army and when I was in 1989-93 you had to be an NCO to apply. Are you going in as an officer?

[LastManOut]

Those were the two subject I taught at Ft. Indiantown gap NCO Academy 150 years ago when I left active duty to the active reserves.

Lesson # 1: Get a topo map and a good Silva compass. Oh and a 360 degree protractor.

[ReconLdr]

I am VERY strongly considering joining the Army for Special Forces Initial Accession aka 18x (in fact I'm going in to meet my recruiter tomorrow morning). I want to get as much of a head start as I can with some of the subjects that people get hung up on. The main skill that I feel I need the most help with is the Land Nav aspect. Does anyone know if there's somewhere/someone reputable to train with in PA?
Thanks for any and all advice/help.

I taught Land Nav damn near every other week for the last 2 years...I could help you out. I will be teaching at Ft Indiantown Gap July 23 - Aug 12. I could set aside some time and help you out but, you would have to be ready to train when I am ready to teach. Meaning, I won't know what time I will be done working/teaching until the day of. (train to standard not time)

[Carnes]

I am VERY strongly considering joining the Army for Special Forces Initial Accession aka 18x (in fact I'm going in to meet my recruiter tomorrow morning).

So, if you don't get picked up after selection or fail out of the Q-course, what will happen to you then? Will you just get shipped to a unit based on the needs of the Army? If that is the case, you should seriously consider your options. Any soldier from any MOS can go through Special Forces Assessment and Selection. That being the case, you can enlist in the Army to get a job that will provide you with a marketable skill, such as X-Ray Tech, and get all the paid training. Then once you get to your unit, you can talk to SF recruiters and go to SFAS. If you don't make it, and lots of people don't, at least you will still have a marketable skill.

Alternately, pick an MOS and a duty station that you think would be a satisfactory alternative to going 18 series, then go in with that. After you get in, go to SFAS, and again, if you don't make it, at least you will be satisfied with the MOS you have, and also, very importantly, the duty station you get assigned to. Some Army posts are in bum-fucked-Egypt... It might not sound that bad... But it is, take that seriously.

I want to get as much of a head start as I can with some of the subjects that people get hung up on. The main skill that I feel I need the most help with is the Land Nav aspect.

Well, I'll have to give you some credit here, land nav is probably the #1 most important skill you will want to master in order to make selection and the q-course more manageable. The good news is that they will give you high quality instruction in land nav, the bad news is that you will be under a hell of a lot of stress while receiving the instruction, so best to learn as much as you can now.

Step 1: Read, digest, memorize... You will see this again, and again, and again:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...-26/index.html

The more knowledge from that book you already have committed to memory, the more easy it is going to be for you to learn how to effectively apply that knowledge. There are a helluva lot of tools you will learn how to use to get from point a to point b. Then it turns into the art of when to use which tools.

Step 2:

Practice with someone that has at least some idea of what they are doing. It's not always easy for civilians to get MGRS (if you don't know what that means, go back to step 1!) maps, so it can be tough to find local land nav training that will be applicable to the environment you are looking at getting into. Like others said, ROTC or Recruiters might be helpful, but I wouldn't get my hopes up with them. ROTC cadets know just about enough to get themselves in trouble, and the recruiters are not selected to be recruiters because they were stellar instructors in the Army... But, it may be better than nothing, at least you might be able to get a bit of familiarization.

Does anyone know if there's somewhere/someone reputable to train with in PA?

I have everything I'd need to get you started with the exception of an MGRS map of the area. Score me a MGRS map for an area that is reasonably close to Johnstown, and we can discuss training further.

In the mean time, focus on Step 1, and let me know if you have any questions.

ETA: And take ReconLdr up on his offer if you can, that looks like your best bet at the moment.