HOME DEFENSE

[knight0334]

The funny thing is, the law is the law. Its who interprets and enforces the law in your respective area, ie the District Attorney and police. I have been in court for BURGLARY charges wherein the guy was very intoxicated, went into someone else's house, (forcibly at that, he thought it was his house and he did not have his keys on him) and the owner found him lying there. The DA said, and I quote,"he's lucky he didnt get shot." Curious and humbly, I asked (name omitted) what would have happend if they guy shot him? jokingly, he said we wouldnt be in court for a guilty plea."

Bottom line is, it is up to the police and DA to even decide wether or not to charge anyone with a crime. If you are in a more rural, pro-gun area... you may get away with it. If not, you are rolling the dice.

That in bold is one of the key problems today. The LEO's and DA's aren't supposed to interpret the law - only judges of the judicial branch has that duty. LEO's are supposed to enforce the law as part of the executive branch, legislators make the law..

[Mtbkski]

Couple years back that kid was shot in Texas. He had gone to the wrong house for a party. Imagine the owners feeling. You can tell yourself over and over for the rest of your life that you were justified. But your always going to know that you shot some stupid kid that showed up at the wrong house for the rest of your life. It can happen.

I know I for one never locked my doors to my house. I just recently started. H*ll, I didn't lock them when I went to bed. Things have changed. My friends all just walk in and yell out. Now they knock and I answer the door.

[mossberg]

I'm going to give you a very brief primer on the use of deadly force in your home in PA, and then I'm going to shut up. I'm not going to answer hypotheticals or "what ifs."

This is a very, very serious topic, and too many people post without even thinking about whether they're right.

PA has a "no duty to retreat" law in your own home unless you are the initial aggressor (you caused the need for deadly force). 18 Pa.C.S. 505(b)(2)(ii)(A).

This is NOT a "castle" law. Don't confuse "castle" with "no duty to retreat." Don't use buzzwords like "castle" to describe a statute. All statutes mean different things, regardless of what they're called. A castle statute in one state may allow deadly force against all intruders, in another it might not. Know the law in your own state; don't just assume that because you heard the word castle you're good to go.

Anyway:

You can't shoot someone simply because they come in your home in PA.

Deadly force, even in your own home, is not legal "unless the actor believes that such force is necessary to protect himself against death, serious bodily injury, kidnapping or sexual intercourse compelled by force or threat." 18 Pa.C.S. 505(b)(2).

Shooting someone just "because he came in my house" is a damn fine way to go to jail. Are their strong arguments to be made that he wouldn't be in your house for any other reason but to commit a serious crime? Sure. But are you going to get away with popping someone for walking through your front door? Probably not. Remember, there are degrees of homicide. You can act negligently in your use of deadly force and go to jail just as easily as if you intended to kill the guy.

thanks for the info, i just wanna make sure that i can protect my family without going to jail for the rest of my life. but if worst comes to worst i'll do whatever i have to do to make sure my family is safe.

[Frenchy]

Just thought of something..

Unless the person (illegally)entering the home had a legitimate reason to be in there, the unlawful entry would be prima-facie evidence that his entry was intended to commit a crime. Why else would he be there? That is the whole spirit of "Castle Doctrine" back to Marcus Tullius Cicero(Tully).

Unless it can be proven that the entry was to retrieve property that the "burglar" owned, or that it was LEO's in the performance of their duties, or one of the other coded legal reasons - the entry by the "burglar" was for the intent to commit crimes or cause harm which has been understood for 2050 years or so.

Ill give you a simple example, Mind you this was in Quebec, but the law there about home protection is very similar to here.

January 1991 I was driving back from Rimouski to Montreal, the weather was around -25 to -30. I had in my small car blankets and the 3 children and my Ex in the car where able to keep huddled once the gas line freezing forced us to stop. I took a chance and decided I would walk to try and find a phone. First house I found seemed like it might have a phone, there was light in the house, but no one answered the door. It was damned cold and my leather boots had cracked and my feet where frozen, chances are the kids and the Ex could have made it in the car, but I surely would not have made it back.

I had to take a decision, try an other house, who knows how far away, I could not see one, or break in seeing no one answered my pounding on the door. So I broke a window in the door, unlocked the door and went to search for a phone.

Called 911 and as I had absolutely no idea where I was, had them trace where I was calling from, then found an enveloppe and confirmed the address. The house was not much warmer then outside I was shivvering and telling the PD i needed 2 cars, one to rescue my daughter, her two sibblings and my ex, and one to come pick me up.

Ther police showed up a little while later with the towning, but not before the home owners arrived. I tried to explain to them what I was doing, btu they did not care, I had broken into their home.

When the pd arrived, the man who lived there had me cornered in the room where the phone was and I was pretty worried about the outcome as I could not seen to say anything to satisfy him. Just when I thought things where going to go south, the Pd arrived there, I was never so happy to see a cop!!!

The cop explaned much better then I could what was happening, confirmed what I was trying to tell this guy who simply could not believe I had walked over 10 miles to break into his house.

The police called it a "Need to Survive" and not a break in, I was not even asked to repair or pay for the window. The police took care of all that while the towing drove me back to my car and got us unfrozen.

Every one was quite fine exept I had to finish my drive to Montreal in running shoes as my leather boots where actually pinching my feet when I moved in them.

Given this situation, had the home owner hurt me, or even took out a gun (in that area almost every one hunts) and hurt me, he would have had criminal charges brought against him, As it was, he did not attempt to call the police and this actually got him in trouble.

Once I was able to warm up and the police told me this, I told them that I was so cold, I was not able to talk to him, I am sure he could not understand me. It was probably like listening to some one cry. I was pretty well in Shock. Both from the event, the mere idea of having to break into a house and the cold, my daughter possibly freezing in a car.

Oddly enough, the police told me this happens more often then we can think. There is actually a law in Quebec that states that any "cabin" or part time summer home, must have wood or some form of heating, some non perishable foods and one door unlocked. This law was made so that any one lost or broken down in the country side could go in and warm themselves and wait for rescue.

I later found out that hotels/motels can not turn you away if the weather is bellow -20. Same reason, the cop explained you wouldnt leave a dog out to freeze, only makes sence you would do the same for a human.

[N3HCP]

Just thought of something..

Unless the person (illegally)entering the home had a legitimate reason to be in there, the unlawful entry would be prima-facie evidence that his entry was intended to commit a crime. Why else would he be there? That is the whole spirit of "Castle Doctrine" back to Marcus Tullius Cicero(Tully).

Unless it can be proven that the entry was to retrieve property that the "burglar" owned, or that it was LEO's in the performance of their duties, or one of the other coded legal reasons - the entry by the "burglar" was for the intent to commit crimes or cause harm which has been understood for 2050 years or so.

Or the entry could simply have been a mistake. Several years ago I was working as an appliance repairman in a neighborhood I didn't know that well. I had to park a block or so away from the house I was surviving. After returning to the truck for a part I mistakenly entered the wrong house (they all really do look alike). Luckily the folks in that house had seen me coming the first time and pointed me to the right house. I have often felt that if I had met some of the guys from some of these forums I would have been met with a load of buck shot.

There are a hundred reasons someone might "illegally" enter your castle that have perfectly explainable reasons that do not involve a felony. For God's sake find out what's going on before you blow away me, or your neighbor's drunk kid!

To an outsider it really sounds like we are a bunch of trigger happy red necks just looking for there chance to shoot somebody as soon as possible. It's going to look that way to the DA too. Personally, I look horrible in an orange jump suit so I will be very sure of my target and will have exhausted every other means of resolving the situation before I resort the the gun...but that's just me.