New hunting rifle-build

[Arch007er]

Hey guys, thought I would start a thread about the rifle I'm going to slowly build, should be finished by spring 2011 after I get all my ducks in a row. I liked these threads when others would slowly post they're progress and the end result. I've been tossin around the idea of a rifle build for sometime now, and I believe now I'm in a good position to do it.

I wanted rifle that I could use as a dual purpose deer/ground hog, even though tryin to get the best of both worlds will limit the gun some degree, I think this recipe will do very well.

The base of the build is going to be a Remington 700 SPS stainless steel, chambered in .243 win. and it will probably remain factory till around the end of the year, while the barrel and stock are being made (or money )

For the stock, I'm leaning very heavy towards the McMillan Remington Varmint, I like the flat base forearm stocks. I'm still not sure on which color, if I should do a flat black or some of their marble colors, which look pretty cool.
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-st...ubnav=branch2d

The barrel is coming from Krieger, and since I'm wanting to deer hunt with this rifle this is where one of the short comings will come into effect due to barrel weight. So I'll probably get the Bull sporter contour (weighs around 4 Lbs) This is also going to have a .243/6mm bore, but for the chambering (Bruce Baer is going to to the chambering, inlay, etc.) I'm goin to get it chambered in .243 Ackley , to give me a little more muzzle velocity and case life, and just fire form .243 Win. cases. The barrel is going to be a 1:10 twist, there seems to be enough variety of both varmint and deer bullets in 80-100 grain, with Hornady making a 87 grain V-Max which I'm thinkin will be my first trial round for varmints and a 90-100 grain spitzer for deer.

Tomorrow I'll be placing the order for the 700 and obviously pics and updates to come. Hope you guys enjoy, and feel free to share any of your opinions, thoughts, etc.

[Dredly]

Stick to bows :P

sounds like it should be a sweet rifle. The .243 will effectively drop deer, just make sure you shoot it in the right spot

[Tomcat088]

Hey guys, thought I would start a thread about the rifle I'm going to slowly build, should be finished by spring 2011 after I get all my ducks in a row. I liked these threads when others would slowly post they're progress and the end result. I've been tossin around the idea of a rifle build for sometime now, and I believe now I'm in a good position to do it.

I wanted rifle that I could use as a dual purpose deer/ground hog, even though tryin to get the best of both worlds will limit the gun some degree, I think this recipe will do very well.

The base of the build is going to be a Remington 700 SPS stainless steel, chambered in .243 win. and it will probably remain factory till around the end of the year, while the barrel and stock are being made (or money )

For the stock, I'm leaning very heavy towards the McMillan Remington Varmint, I like the flat base forearm stocks. I'm still not sure on which color, if I should do a flat black or some of their marble colors, which look pretty cool.
http://www.mcmfamily.com/mcmillan-st...ubnav=branch2d

The barrel is coming from Krieger, and since I'm wanting to deer hunt with this rifle this is where one of the short comings will come into effect due to barrel weight. So I'll probably get the Bull sporter contour (weighs around 4 Lbs) This is also going to have a .243/6mm bore, but for the chambering (Bruce Baer is going to to the chambering, inlay, etc.) I'm goin to get it chambered in .243 Ackley , to give me a little more muzzle velocity and case life, and just fire form .243 Win. cases. The barrel is going to be a 1:10 twist, there seems to be enough variety of both varmint and deer bullets in 80-100 grain, with Hornady making a 87 grain V-Max which I'm thinkin will be my first trial round for varmints and a 90-100 grain spitzer for deer.

Tomorrow I'll be placing the order for the 700 and obviously pics and updates to come. Hope you guys enjoy, and feel free to share any of your opinions, thoughts, etc.

Howdy Arch007er, I'm glad to see that you're going to start on a build and keep us informed on the progress. I look forward to seeing where it's going and all the parts come together. I also think that you made an excellent choice in caliber and cartridge for the purposes you've stated. I do have a few questions though.

Is there a particular reason that you want a McMillan Varmint stock? I ask for a few reasons, the first of which may not be your opinion. First, I think that McMillan's Remington Varmint is ugly, Remington and pretty much nobody else puts that cheap looking checkering on their Varmint Stock. I'm guessing that if you wanted one without the checkering, they would probably do it, but there's some other reasons that I ask why you want the McMillan. I do like the Remington Varmint style stock, especially for the type of shooting that you mention. The McMillan stock will be a fine stock, but it's going to be expensive, and it's NOT going to have any type of bedding. Some people believe that McMillan stocks are "so perfectly inletted that they never need to be bedded." MOST people I know, and I think if you ask Bruce Baer what he thinks, he'll think that it should be bedded. Different people do different things, but most people will want the rifle to be at the very least pillar bedded, and then most also want it glass/skim bedded. If you want to have the stock even pillar bedded, you're going to have to pay McMillan to do it, or Bruce Baer, or someone else. Now it's just my opinion, but I think it's pretty ridiculous to have to spend another $26-50 to have McMillan do it for you, on a stock that without already costs $400+. Then you'll still have to pay someone to glass or skim bed it, I dang sure wouldn't pay Remington the $292 that they want for it, on top of what it'll cost to ship your barreled action to them so they can do it.

I like McMillan stocks, but I just don't see the point in spending this much money on a stock when there are other options that are dang near identical, possibly for quite a lot less money. On their quality rifles where Remington uses this style of stock (or very very similar) like the Remington Sendero, 5R, and 700P, they use HS Precision or Bell & Carlson. The HS Precision has always competed with McMillan, especially in this particular stock style, and the Bell & Carlson is identical in practically every way to the HS Precision. The Bell & Carlson has a full length bedding block, so it doesn't need to be pillar bedded, and only lacks glass bedding. There are pretty much only 2 differences between the 2 stocks, the McMillan may be just a little bit lighter, and it would have "molded in" colors. You can get the Bell & Carlson in any of their colors without any extra charge, or you could always paint it. If you were going with flat black, it would be the same anyway. You can get the Bell & Carlson stock for $225-250. While the McMillan may be a little lighter, it won't be any tougher. The Bell & Carlson has a full length aluminum chassis molded in, it's why it may be a little bit heavier, but is every bit as tough, if not more.

This may or may not make a difference for you, since you're worried about weight and deer hunting to begin with. I would call both manufacturers and find out what the weight of each is, and what McMillan's is with the fill that you've been considering. I'd be surprised if the difference is more than a pound for their standard stocks (the light one will cost more), so that's something to consider. Because even if you saved a pound or two, is it worth $250 or more that it'll cost? Obviously money is an issue (as it is for me and most people), and I just make the recommendation because I think the $250 could be used on the barrel, scope, triggers, etc. Sure McMillan is a well known name, and people like to say they have them on their rifle, but in the big picture of building your rifle, is it worth it?

The other thing that I'm curious about is your choice in barrel contour. It sounds like you're trying to build your rifle with weight as a big concern (which is understandable) because you'll be hunting with it as well. It sounds like you're trying to do a fair bit of this in the barrel contour, is that correct? I have a few questions about this. How do you hunt deer, like stalking, from a stand, etc? How often do you go out in the woods before you limit out, or find the one you want? It sounds like you're basing a lot of the decision on the barrel contour about going deer hunting, when I'm guessing that it'll be the way that it's used least. I know that you're a bow hunter, a successful one, so I have no doubt that you can get close enough to a deer to make a lethal hit with a rifle. So I just don't see you having to carry the rifle in the woods all that much, or nearly as often as you will out to the chuck fields, or shoot paper. So shouldn't you be making the rifle more with chuck hunting and varminting in mind? Varmint and chuck hunting usually involves quite a few rounds being sent down range, in a fairly short amount of time. With that in mind, having a thinner sporter contour WILL be dextrimental to your accuracy, heat dissipation, etc. While it's much less with a barrel that's cryogenically relieved and chambered in the stress free fashion that Bruce is gonna use, Krieger can't work magic, and they sell heavier contours for a reason.

Which brings me to my recommendation about the contour. Have you considered something from Krieger like their "Remington Varmint"? It's in the same section of the contour chart from Krieger, in the "Sporter Barrel contours". It has a little shorter area before the taper in the shank/chamber area, BUT it starts out SIGNIFICANTLY larger in that area than the the Bull Sporter contour. You can tell this by their diagram when you look at the F measurement, and then the G measurement. At that particular place, the Varmint is .060" larger in diameter than the Bull Sporter. What this means is that while the shank area of the Varminter is a little shorter, it doesn't mean that it's necessarily thinner than the Bull Sporter in that area, it just already starts to taper a little sooner. The Remington Varmint contour terminates at the same length (26") at a diameter that is .130" larger. So it's a very slightly larger barrel, but let's look at the weight difference; it only weighs roughly a half pound more. Yes, half a pound does mean a fair bit when you're worried about weight, but in the big picture, it's not a lot. IF weight is the main and/or deciding factor, you might consider having your barrel fluted. From Krieger it's an extra $120, BUT it will save you at least half a pound on the barrel and that'll be the same weight as the original Bull Sporter contour that you were looking at. The barrel would be more rigid, without flutes it'll cool faster, but especially with flutes it wouldn't get as hot, and would be the same weight. Keep in mind that barrel heat effects your barrel life, and with an Ackley, especially pushing some faster loads (we always do with Ackley's). I would think that you want as much barrel life as you can get on a barrel that costs $300 (or more) BEFORE chambering, or not want to have to pay Mr. Baer all the time to keep setting it back. With an Ackley, it just makes more sense to me, to go with the heavier barrel contour that is fluted; you end up with a barrel that weighs the same, would have a better barrel life, and would save you money in the end on rechambering, and probably give you better accuracy and heat dissipation.

Obviously different people place different emphasis on different things. This is just how I would do things, which may not be anything close to the way that you decide to do things. Either way, I'd really consider going with a different stock manufacturer and putting that money (it would be more than enough) towards fluting a heavier contour barrel, and having the Bell & Carlson glass bedded. May not be exactly what you choose to do, but at least it'll be something else for the other people watching to think about. I'm curious about your thoughts on this.

[Arch007er]

Tomcat,

Buddy as always it is a pleasure to chat customs with ya. I was glad to see you found my thread, and as always you brought some good food to the table. First ? of yours I'll tackle is about the stock. While I have a taste of custom gun knowledge, most of which is spillage from my father, and I have owned custom guns for many years, for the most part they were all hand-me-downs from my dad. He has only owned custom guns for decades now, and through many hours and tons of money he has a very select few companies he trusts, one of them is McMillan, not to say he (or I) wouldn't like other manufactures just once he finds a product that produces good/consistent results he sticks with them with some tinkering here or there. That being said, that is the main driving force for a McMillan stock. And the stock itself I choose was mainly for the 2 inch flat forearm, once again my dad has a similar McMillan on his .17 HMR and I really liked the feel of that flat forearm, as far as the checkering, I could take it or leave it, I'll ask McMillan about it, while it is an eyesore, to a degree I guess it could have some benefit on a cold, rainy winter day. Now the bedding you mentioned I couldn't tell if you were talking about the action or the barrel. The action is going to get glass bedded probably, depends on a few guys opinions on whether to pillar or glass, but I would be willing to bet it's going to be glass, and the barrel will be floated (atleast for the first go around, we'll see if it looks like it wants some pressure)

The second question of yours, about the barrel contour is great one, so great in fact I didn't (pop's either) even notice that contour on the website. That contour looks to be a great choice, I really liked the fact that it tapers very little, while gaining over .1 at the muzzle and only adding .5 Lb. This seems like a no brainer, and I'm grateful you brought it up. Like you mentioned this gun is going to have 10 times as many ground hogs in its sights then deer. Plus since I live close to Maryland I hunt both PA and MD, and MD only allows shotguns in pretty much all of the counties so that limits me even more to hunt with this rifle. So with the weight being an issue, its not a red liner till I'm pushin the 9+Lb mark (scope and all). But the barrel temp for varmints is not too much of an issue, out here the groundhogs aren't like the prairie dogs of the west, if you shoot a 1/2 dozen times all afternoon, your doing very very well and you probably need to ask a new farm to hunt cause you probably wiped them out.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as always.

BTW, how's the .300WSM?'

[Arch007er]

Stick to bows :P

sounds like it should be a sweet rifle. The .243 will effectively drop deer, just make sure you shoot it in the right spot

Hey man, yeah I've been away for awhile, that what getting married and getting a new job will do to ya. Don't worry about the old Hoyt now, she is still ready to go, just thought I'd get a nice back up goin.

[Arch007er]

Well guys step one is over, while I only went to the gun shop today to place the order for the sps, they had a good deal on a Rem SPS varmint in .243 win that I couldn't pass up. So I bought that today ($515) and was chompin at the bit to send a few down range. I bought some federal 85 grain and some scope rings and mount (weaver, first time buying weaver mounts, I'll keep a review goin) and took my 4.5x14 VX III off the .17 and put it all together. Then pops and I headed to the range, he decided to take his 6mm BR, I'll post a pic of his group.

All in all it didn't do too bad. The first 8-10 rounds were done with the shoot/clean, but the groups weren't all that impressive, around 1.5-2 inches @ 100. The POI would change some too, but the gun seemed to be settling in for the last two 3 shot groups. I'll be pickin some more ammo up tomorrow and have some pics monday. Anyway here's the pics, hope you like em.


Here's the gun












Here's the first group during the shoot/clean (and nevermind that awesome .17 HMR 50 yard group)





Here's the second group (shoot/clean)




Here's the first consecutive 3 shot group



Here's the last consecutive 3 shot group.




And last is pop's not too shabby 5 shot group with his BR

[Chazman321]

I love 6mm lol Here is a pic of my baby... Its an older Savage 110 in .243, it has an aftermarket stock on it (came that way) and a Tasco 6-24x42mm scope, Walmart bi-pod, and Leupold rings and base (I have both 1" and 30mm rings for the base, just don't have a 30mm scope, yet!) and it works just fine for me... The .243 is a great round for everything from groundhogs to deer and things in between... I'm not much of a bedded rifle person, I like freefloating barrels personally... lol

-Chaz

[Tomcat088]

Tomcat,

Buddy as always it is a pleasure to chat customs with ya. I was glad to see you found my thread, and as always you brought some good food to the table. First ? of yours I'll tackle is about the stock. While I have a taste of custom gun knowledge, most of which is spillage from my father, and I have owned custom guns for many years, for the most part they were all hand-me-downs from my dad. He has only owned custom guns for decades now, and through many hours and tons of money he has a very select few companies he trusts, one of them is McMillan, not to say he (or I) wouldn't like other manufactures just once he finds a product that produces good/consistent results he sticks with them with some tinkering here or there. That being said, that is the main driving force for a McMillan stock. And the stock itself I choose was mainly for the 2 inch flat forearm, once again my dad has a similar McMillan on his .17 HMR and I really liked the feel of that flat forearm, as far as the checkering, I could take it or leave it, I'll ask McMillan about it, while it is an eyesore, to a degree I guess it could have some benefit on a cold, rainy winter day. Now the bedding you mentioned I couldn't tell if you were talking about the action or the barrel. The action is going to get glass bedded probably, depends on a few guys opinions on whether to pillar or glass, but I would be willing to bet it's going to be glass, and the barrel will be floated (atleast for the first go around, we'll see if it looks like it wants some pressure)

The second question of yours, about the barrel contour is great one, so great in fact I didn't (pop's either) even notice that contour on the website. That contour looks to be a great choice, I really liked the fact that it tapers very little, while gaining over .1 at the muzzle and only adding .5 Lb. This seems like a no brainer, and I'm grateful you brought it up. Like you mentioned this gun is going to have 10 times as many ground hogs in its sights then deer. Plus since I live close to Maryland I hunt both PA and MD, and MD only allows shotguns in pretty much all of the counties so that limits me even more to hunt with this rifle. So with the weight being an issue, its not a red liner till I'm pushin the 9+Lb mark (scope and all). But the barrel temp for varmints is not too much of an issue, out here the groundhogs aren't like the prairie dogs of the west, if you shoot a 1/2 dozen times all afternoon, your doing very very well and you probably need to ask a new farm to hunt cause you probably wiped them out.

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated as always.

BTW, how's the .300WSM?'

Howdy Arch007er, always a pleasure to chat customs with you as well. I'm glad that you found some points that I brought up interesting, and some of them good. I think most of us come by custom rifle knowledge the same, it starts as "hand-me-downs", from knowledge all the way to rifles, and then gets broadened out a bit more, as we learn and broaden our horizons.

I completely understand what you mean about finding something that works and sticking with it. McMillan makes a good quality scope, although I will say that the company has changed a fair bit from what it used to be when your father first started buying stocks from them. The company has grown quite a lot, with some BIG contracts to fulfill. It's a testament to the quality of their product, but it also makes it more difficult to be as faithful to "the little guys" as they used to be. I'd say that even within the past 6 months their products have improved, as the technology and techniques get a little better and refined over time. They still are mighty proud of their stocks, and it's one place where if you're on a budget, with your particular stock there are some other quality options that are cheaper. I will say that another top stock maker that is equal, and some say even better than McMillan is Manners. He makes some fine stocks, although the color is not molded in, but his stocks and customer service are second to none. I've seen his stocks run over by UPS trucks with the wood blocks that support them on the very ends. They are tough repeatable stocks, with a personal touch, and superb. He makes a variant of the stock you're looking at, and it has a little texturing on it, instead of the checkering. If you're interesting in texturing, you or McMillan can do it, it's VERY easy. Even if you had a stock with the checking and wanted to cover it up with some texturing, it could easily be done. Just some things to consider, and I understand if you just want to save a little more and go with a McMillan; obviously there's nothing wrong with that.

I'm really happy to hear that you liked the contour recommendation. I understand that the groundhog fields aren't like the prairie dog fields, but it's nice to always have the option right, lol? Krieger does place that contour in a bit of an odd place, trying not to interupt their other numbered contours, since it's a bit of a special one. It's a contour very similar to my "Sendero" contour on my rifle. That'll give you an idea of what it'll look like, although it's slightly different. My contour ends about .025" smaller in diameter, so it'll be hard to see the difference with your eyes, and it has a slightly longer "shank" because the Sendero's are long action, and have a longer shank/chamber area. I find it to be a great compromise for accuracy, being rigid, but still light enough to carry. I'm excited for you about this rifle, I can already tell she's gonna be a shooter.

The groups on that new rifle don't look bad at all, especially for breaking it in and getting her to settle down. I think you'll like the varmint, I was hoping you'd find one (a varmint) anyway, instead of a sporter contour; just something fun and a little heavier to hold you over until you get this one built. That group next to the .17 HMR group doesn't look bad at all, it looks like you had a little breeze, and the fouling was changing your velocity and causing the stringing. From the other 3, looks like your breathing and trigger pull were right on, the other 2 are right with the others in windage, just difference in vertical; so it's the velocity spread.

The last 2 consecutive groups look quite respectable for a factory rifle with factory ammunition, and I'm sure she's only going to get better as she gets broken in and you find a load she likes. I do notice a pattern, and I'm curious if you've noticed it in other groups that you shoot, even with other rifles, or if it may be this particular one. We'll take the first shot as a baseline, then the second shot in both groups hits a little high and right, then the third one hits left of the first, and sometimes just a little high or right with it. The reason I'm curious is because I was wondering if you changed your breathe, trigger pull, pressure on your shoulder, or part of the pad that you pulled the trigger with. You can talk to your dad, or you may have already talked with him about it before, but lots of times shooters have habits. There's usually one particular shot in a group that they'll throw, or where they'll have a lapse in concentration or do something just a little different. You shot some good gropus, I just noticed that and wanted you to be aware of it, so that it might be something you can look at and fix if it's not the rifle.

Emily (the .300 WSM) is doing great, sadly I've been so busy lately that I haven't gotten to shoot her as often as I like to. She's been dropping some 1 3/4-2" 5 shot groups at 500 yards. I have a feeling if I shot in some less gusty conditions, or she had someone better to do the trigger, she'd do even better consistently. Either way, I'm pretty happy with less than 1/2 MOA groups at 500 yards. I have nothing against BR shooting and small gropus, but for what I like to do in terms of tactical shooting, 1/2 MOA is MORE than acceptable :-). Keep us posted, and I look forward to seeing these new groups tomorrow and if they show any similar sorts of patterns.

[Arch007er]

Here's the latest groups. These are some simple reloads pop's and I did using the brass from the federal 85 grain that you saw in the first groups. Overall I'm very pleased, I'm still going to shoot another batch of the varget that shot the .3 group to see if it was a fluke or not. Next up on the list is some >85 grain varmint bullets, we wanted to try the 87 grain V-Max's but they are sold out everywhere, so I think its going to be the 88 grain berger's. Hopefully one of these will give me a good consistent group, then next will be finding a deer bullet, probably a 90 grain, but that depends on how the 88's shoot. Enjoy.

All groups are @ 100 yards.










Not sure what happened to the the far left one, the wind was not bad that day, and all shots felt good, kinda weird that 1 grain of powder would be such a difference in these two groups, thats the main reason I'm thinking that the bottom group was just a lucky 4 shots.



This was the first group I shot, from the cold barrel, but I don't think that had too much to do with the group's size, since we allowed a long time for the barrel to cool between shots and cleaned it between groups, need to see if this was just a fluke.

[Chazman321]

The 75gr. V-MAX loads have the same ballistics as the factory loaded 7mmSTW except the .243 has less energy...

-Chaz