What is the real situation if I want to carry a shotgun in my vehicle all the time?

[dogngun]

Used to be no problem, then it was unloaded, in a case, ammo in a separate case, then I understand is changed again....what is the real situation in PA if I want to carry a shotgun or long gun in my SUV for just in case?
Is it no longer doable, even with my LTCF?

mark

[MDJschool]

Used to be no problem, then it was unloaded, in a case, ammo in a separate case, then I understand is changed again....what is the real situation in PA if I want to carry a shotgun or long gun in my SUV for just in case?
Is it no longer doable, even with my LTCF?

mark

An LTCF would only play a part in Philly, a state of emergency, etc. for a firearm other than a firearm. Makes sense, right? (See 18 Pa.C.S. 6102)


18 Pa.C.S. § 6106.1: Carrying loaded weapons other than firearms
(a) General rule.-- Except as provided in Title 34 (relating to game), no person shall carry a loaded pistol, revolver, shotgun or rifle, other than a firearm as defined in section 6102 (relating to definitions), in any vehicle. The provisions of this section shall not apply to persons excepted from the requirement of a license to carry firearms under section 6106(b)(1), (2), (5) or (6) (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license) nor shall the provisions of this section be construed to permit persons to carry firearms in a vehicle where such conduct is prohibited by section 6106.
(b) Penalty.--A person who violates the provisions of this section commits a summary offense.
18 Pa.C.S. § 6102: Definitions
"Loaded." A firearm is loaded if the firing chamber, the nondetachable magazine or in the case of a revolver, any of the chambers of the cylinder contain ammunition capable of being fired. In the case of a firearm which utilizes a detachable magazine, the term shall mean a magazine suitable for use in said firearm which magazine contains such ammunition and has been inserted in the firearm or is in the same container or, where the container has multiple compartments, the same compartment thereof as the firearm.

The reason the LTCF is not involved but for special scenarios (like Philly, state of emergency, etc.) is because of the definition of 'firearm' in 18 Pa.C.S. 6102

18 Pa.C.S. § 6102: Definitions
"Firearm." Any pistol or revolver with a barrel length less than 15 inches, any shotgun with a barrel length less than 18 inches or any rifle with a barrel length less than 16 inches, or any pistol, revolver, rifle or shotgun with an overall length of less than 26 inches. The barrel length of a firearm shall be determined by measuring from the muzzle of the barrel to the face of the closed action, bolt or cylinder, whichever is applicable.
18 Pa.C.S. § 6106: Firearms not to be carried without a license
(a) Offense defined.--
(1) Except as provided in paragraph (2), any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

There is some question how the definition of loaded might be applied since it is very possible that it is limited by the definition of 'firearm' in the same statute. Of course, you can play it safe by treating the definition of loaded to apply to all guns, at the expense of (statutory?) rights you may or may not have.

[dogngun]

So an unloaded pump shotgun in a soft container is legal, provided the ammo is in a different container or different section of the same container?

I have heard verious versions of this, depending on where you are in PA and on which LEO you ask at the time...this seems almost as bad as the knife carry laws - or lack of any-that vary depending how far down the same road you may be and which cop is lecturng you about the "3 inch blade" limit...

Thanks.

mark

[jcabin]

Here is an idea. Stop asking cops what the law is.

[dogngun]

Right - why am I assuming that they know....


mark

[gnbrotz]

No need for long guns to be cased or to take any special precautions where the ammo is, as long as the gun itself is not loaded. The whole "separate container" for ammo requirement is to qualify for the exemption of traveling to and from the range if you are unlicensed.

[ErSwnn]

No need for long guns to be cased or to take any special precautions where the ammo is, as long as the gun itself is not loaded. The whole "separate container" for ammo requirement is to qualify for the exemption of traveling to and from the range if you are unlicensed.

So do I read that to mean that vehicle transporting a firearm in the same container with the ammo is legal provided the owner has a LTCF?

[gnbrotz]

So do I read that to mean that vehicle transporting a firearm in the same container with the ammo is legal provided the owner has a LTCF?

"Firearms" as defined by 6102, yes. Others, no. LTCF holders can have "firearms" and ammo in the same box, or even loaded if they wish. I certainly don't unload my daily carry piece - a "firearm" - because I'm on the way to the range.

The term "firearms" as defined by 6102 does not include long guns. Long guns must always be unloaded in a vehicle, no matter where you are going, and whether you have a LTCF or not. But beyond that, you can hold the shotgun in one hand, and the shells in the other (though I'm not sure how you'd drive).

[Triggerh4ppy]

with your fee....oh dang..so much for that idea.
I guess this is where you "ride shotgun"

[ErSwnn]

"Firearms" as defined by 6102, yes. Others, no. LTCF holders can have "firearms" and ammo in the same box, or even loaded if they wish. I certainly don't unload my daily carry piece - a "firearm" - because I'm on the way to the range.

The term "firearms" as defined by 6102 does not include long guns. Long guns must always be unloaded in a vehicle, no matter where you are going, and whether you have a LTCF or not. But beyond that, you can hold the shotgun in one hand, and the shells in the other (though I'm not sure how you'd drive).

Thank you for the clearification.

As for the driving, with my knees, just like when I'm eating my Bigmac and texting at the same time.