Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    I was recently given (yes, given) over a hundred rounds of Federal 9mil +P+ HPs and want to make sure they are ok to use in the following guns. Glock 19, Sig 226, Beretta 92, and Kahr PM9. Thanks in advanve.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    The manuals for those firearms should state whether they're OK to use the +P+ ammo.

    If not, it's always nice to have something in writing from the manufacturer or the organization responsible for the warranty... Maybe, if needed, an email to 'Customer Service' could shed some light...? Though, with that selection of firearms, I'm sure a PAFOa forum user will surely be able to help.

    Sorry that I couldn't be more helpful. good luck.
    F*S=k

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    The Glock and Sig will be ok.

    Not sure about the Beretta or Kahr.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    In regards to the Sig...
    +P Ammo manufactured to SAAMI/CIP/NATO specs is fine to use as a defensive round or for occasional range use. Continual use of this round will make it necessary for more frequent service on the pistol. We do NOT recommend the use of any +P+ round. This may void your warranty.
    http://www.sigsauer.com/CustomerService/Faq.aspx

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    OK I know this is not the manufacturer's line, and lots of people will disagree w/ me... That said...

    I have a couple hundred of that same Federal +P+ (9BPLE, I'm guessing), and have run it somewhat sparingly through older Sigs and HK's, as well as Glocks (when I still owned them) - With no ill effects thus far... Again, I did say sparingly... My P7M8 probably has the most hot +P+ through it, and it probably still has less than 250 combined rds. of 9BPLE and Ranger 127 +P+... But still no problems...

    It is my opinion/experience that you could run those 100 rds. through any of those pistols and be absolutely fine... I wouldn't run 1,000's of rds of it through the Sig or Beretta (alloy frame), but 100 rds. should not hurt anything...

    Again - Only my experience w/ the Federal +P+ (and Win. Ranger 127 +P+).

    I know Sig says NOT to do it... Manufacturers say not to do a lot of things though... Except HK - I thought their newer guns are actually factory rated for +P+ (USP, P2000, etc.)...

    Regards,

    Bones

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    Quote Originally Posted by JoeyBones View Post
    Manufacturers say not to do a lot of things though... Except HK - I thought their newer guns are actually factory rated for +P+ (USP, P2000, etc.)...
    Indeed, my P30 and my friend's USP manuals both say +P+ is good to go.

    Sure, you CAN use it. But as Bones said, you obviously wouldn't want to run a couple thousand rounds through your guns.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    There is no manufacturer, that I know of (how about a scan of that HK manual? Maybe I'm incorrect in that regard), that will give a blanket OK, in writing, for the use of +P+

    I have said this before and I'll say it again: The use of +P+ in your firearm is a crap shoot at best. There are no SAAMI standards for +P+, so the pressure curves and pressure generated may vary greatly from headstamp to headstamp. +P+ is manufactured to specific standards, for specific agencies, for use in that agencies specific weapons. The weapon manufacturer may have "signed-off" on the use of +P+ under these circumstances (known ammo spec, known weapon, controlled professional use). To buy +P+ on the open market, you have no idea what you are getting.

    Will they work in your gun? Sure, but so will a proof load - how many of those do you want to shoot? How many can you shoot until there is a catastrophic failure? Crap shoot.

    I value my guns and my appendages too highly to shoot questionable ammo. If I want extra oooomph, I'll switch to a different caliber, rather than take the chance with +P+.

    JMHO / YMMV

    Adios,

    Pizza Bob
    Last edited by Pizza Bob; June 26th, 2010 at 08:59 AM.
    NRA Benefactor Member

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    I hate to reply to my own post, but, I have to admit that my interest was piqued about H&K approving the use of +P+ ammo, so I did a little research.

    Here is what H&K says in their manual for the USP series:
    The USP Series Pistol is designed to fire quality, factory loaded ammunition loaded to SAAMI specifications for use specifically in handguns. For use with ammunition with hard primers (i.e. some NATO spec. cartridges), a special hammer spring is available.

    As I said, there ae no SAAMI specs for +P+.

    However, H&K goes on to contradict them selves with the following statement:
    NOTE: In compliance with NIJ Standard—0112.00, currently there are no known ammunition types that meet the general guidelines set forth in this section that are not compatible with the USP series pistols. All USPs are approved for use with +P and +P+ ammunition as it applies to the specific caliber. The use of +P and +P+ ammunition accelerates wear and reduces the service life on the component parts of any pistol, including the USP series pistols.

    The NIJ is the National Institute of Justice. Among other things, they set standards for things like body armor. They deal primarily with LE and the tools thereof. I searched for the specified standard and found it deals only with headspace standards on 9mm & .45 ACP auto-loading pistols.

    I don't want to read into H&K's statement, but I think they've given themselves an "out" with this statement: ...currently there are no known ammunition types that meet the general guidelines set forth in this section that are not compatible with the USP series pistols. Without set standards, +P+ could conceiveably be loaded to the point of "incompatibility", and as long as H&K is not aware of it, they are free and clear. A stretch, but NIJ deals primarily with LE and I believe that statement was placed in the manual for their benefit.

    I stand by what I said, and I still would not use it in any of my guns.

    Adios,

    Pizza Bob
    Last edited by Pizza Bob; June 26th, 2010 at 11:08 AM.
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  9. #9
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    iirc high point carbines can too

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Can my guns handle 9mil +P+

    The proper designation is 9mm, don't get it twisted.
    Quote Originally Posted by headcase View Post
    let them eventually bring the FBI to kill my wife and son over fucking chickens....

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