Statements from apparent PPD officer on another forum

[anonymouse]

I stumbled across this page today:

http://fishtown.us/node/16519?page=5
dclxvi is the guy's username.

Legal self-defense...
well there are a lot of different ways of looking at it
I don't have my crimes codes book on me right now but a Prohibitive Offensive Weapon is any object that serves absolutely no legal means - such as brass knuckles, switchblade knives (or any spring assisted knife), sock full of quarters/cue ball and black jacks/saps. We have batons & asps available to us to subdue a person, but anyone non-law enforcement using one of these weapons would/could be arrested for POW. Tasers would also be illegal, especially since training is required for the use in one... I don't believe any taser company sells to civilians. Pepper spray I'll have to check, but I believe that it may also fall under the same rule

if you subdue the Fairmount Park Rapist with pepper spray or taser, you may be able to get away with it
if you do it to some random dude who wanted to fist fight you outside of a bar, you'd probably get locked up for aggravated assault and related offenses.

my personal opinion is CCW license... if you're getting robbed by gun point / knife point, pulling out mace wouldn't be the best option... carrying a gun & having the license isn't free reign to kill anyone or being able to show off the gun outside, but for self-defense purposes, a gun in all honesty would be one of the best self-defense measures... i've had to pull mine twice off-duty and I never leave home without one

umbrella sword / cane sword - that might be illegal... gotta check that out too...

dan wrote:
They're illegal in Philadelphia because city ordinance makes them illegal. Lots of companies sell tasers to civilians outside of Philadelphia.

state law, crimes code 908, Prohibited Offensive Weapons are defined as Bomb, grenade, machine gun, sawed off shotgun w/ barrel >18", firearms made for silent discharge, blackjack, sandbag, metal knuckles, dagger/knife/razor/cutting instrument with an automatic blade by switch/push-button/spring mechanism, stun guns, stun batons, taser or other electronic devices. All of these weapons, when used by civilians, are considered weapons used only for offensive means, not defensive. 908.1 deals specifically with the use of tasers. The above weapons are allowed to be used by law enforcement, military, etc by the same code.

stock wrote:
I would opt for CCW.

Actually, if you have a CC license, you can carry it in the open if you want. It does not have to be concealed.

this is untrue. In Philadelphia you must always have the gun concealed, there is no open carry permitted in our city. Outside of the city, if I remember correctly, you can open-carry WITHOUT a permit, but need a CCW to carry concealed (the CC in CCW means Carry-Concealed, hah).

the law reads: * No person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets or upon any public property in a city of the first class unless:
o (1) such person is licensed to carry a firearm; or
o (2) such person is exempt from licensing under section 6106(b) of this title (relating to firearms not to be carried without a license).

--- no person shall carry a firearm, rifle or shotgun at any time upon the public streets... unless: such person is licensed to carry a firearm...
It's pretty clear that the only way you can carry a firearm in Philly is if you have a Concealed Carry Permit, which means the firearm must be CONCEALED. We do not issue Open Carry Permits, and the law prohibits any carrying inside of Philadelphia UNLESS there is a CCW permit..

In Philly you cannot carry a handgun openly in the streets, and can only carry concealed when you have a license. I know the state law, I know the statutes, several times a week I use this code when charging people for VUFA (Violation of Uniform Firearms Act), I'm recertified once a year by the state police to be a police officer in philly.
And the site you're using for your example is an opinion site, not an actual law enforcement site or state legislative site explaining the law... this is simply the opinion of one group, and i'm sure there are several more on the web that would contradict the opinion of the PAFOA.

Apparently you didn't learn a damn thing from MPOETC.

stock wrote:
http://paopencarry.org/

my problem with this site is it's another opinion site, not an actual site based on the laws. you can interpret so many laws in so many ways but I still don't agree with the open carry in Philly "interpretation" by these groups. 6108 is pretty clear, you can't have any gun in Philly unless licensed to carry and in philly we only provide carry concealled licenses... so if it's not concealed, well you're taking it into your own hands.

there is even mention that Sheriffs/Police/Troopers are often wrong about this and are not always familiar with the laws governing firearms. I'd have to disagree with that statement. All Police are required to take a mandated amount of courses prior to being certified and then retain a certain amount of hours of further every year to keep that certification.

there are certain state laws that I would not be familiar with. I don't deal with Special Victims crimes, I couldn't adequately explain the difference between Rape, Indecent Sexual Assault and Sexual Assault, but there is a difference. I couldn't tell you the exact specifications for sexual contact with an animal though it's in the crimes codes. I deal with gun jobs weekly and I'm pretty familiar with the codes governing Assaults, Robberies, Burglaries, Theft, Narcotics and Gun Violations (VUFA).

and personally I think open carry is just a bad decision. I don't want people to know I have a gun on me, I'm not really sure why anyone else would want someone to know they have a gun on them. I feel in a city like Philly many people would be very nervous about an openly carried firearm. In this case what's to stop you from just walking around with the gun in your hand?

and another problem is that it states that anyone over the age of 18 can openly carry - the only problem is that in PA you have to be 21 years of age to legally purchase and possess a handgun...

[Conglomeration Al]

Hahaha! Oh man, thanks! I needed that. It's been a long day!

It's funny they keeping mentioning these, so-called, concealed carry licenses. I don't have one of those and I'd put money down that says no one else who lives in PA does either.

I do, however, have a license to cary a firearm. Those actually exist in PA and they don't say concealed anywhere on them. Ohhhh Philly cops.

[PAsig229]

has anyone already beaten me to the punch and joined that forum to correct the obvious stupidity? cause if so i wont bother

[phillykev]

I have an account there from a while ago. I replied. Thanks for the heads up.

[gnbrotz]

Wonder if he's sure enough of himself to provide his real identity?

[PAsig229]

I have an account there from a while ago. I replied. Thanks for the heads up.

do you have the same user name on that site? i couldnt find anything that i thought might have been your replies.

EDIT: Nevermind kev, found them.

[ErSwnn]

Ya know, I don't mind if LEOs don't know all the laws all the time...I doubt if anyone could know them all. But this particular fellow claims he deals with firearm violations several times a week yet states he knows the laws, which he clearly doesn't. Their the ones that bother me, even give cause for a bit of concern as to his abilities in general. I won't be very bothered if a LEO stopped me for OC but had the interest in enforcement to verify I was carrying in a legal mode, at least he/she learned and won't have to bother enforcing a violation of.....nothing. It seems he's working off either is own opinion of OC and carrying in general or lipsyncing department sentiment.

Which brings me to the oft wondered question.....why are LEOs so opposed to carry?

Which brings me to a heartwarming story. I was talking with an officer one day and asked how he felt about OC. His response was "I wish everyone would carry and I don't care how they do it." This was a Bucks County PD, one of the larger ones.

[JDC]

Ya know, I don't mind if LEOs don't know all the laws all the time...I doubt if anyone could know them all. But this particular fellow claims he deals with firearm violations several times a week yet states he knows the laws, which he clearly doesn't. Their the ones that bother me, even give cause for a bit of concern as to his abilities in general. I won't be very bothered if a LEO stopped me for OC but had the interest in enforcement to verify I was carrying in a legal mode, at least he/she learned and won't have to bother enforcing a violation of.....nothing. It seems he's working off either is own opinion of OC and carrying in general or lipsyncing department sentiment.

Which brings me to the oft wondered question.....why are LEOs so opposed to carry?

Which brings me to a heartwarming story. I was talking with an officer one day and asked how he felt about OC. His response was "I wish everyone would carry and I don't care how they do it." This was a Bucks County PD, one of the larger ones.

I expect the LEO's to know all the laws they are required to enforce no exceptions. That's their job

[Deanimator]

I expect the LEO's to know all the laws they are required to enforce no exceptions. That's their job

A cop doesn't need to know every law.

He'd BETTER know every law he's ENFORCING RIGHT NOW.

[phillykev]

A cop doesn't need to know every law.

He'd BETTER know every law he's ENFORCING RIGHT NOW.

It would also be nice if they didn't dispense legal advice regarding laws they don't know.