home defense

[tlgpa]

The intruders family can still sue you, if the criminal dies. Using the logic you just used, you would probably be convicted of a minimum of voluntary manslaughter.

Especially if you make comments like:

Originally Posted by mredder351
Buckshot. Blood stains can be cleaned and walls can be repaired.

Having an intruder remain alive during a home invasion isn't worth the risk.

Admitting you intend to kill an intruder is a good way to get yourself sued.

Find me a story ANYWHERE, where someone laughs after being hit at that range with birdshot.... out of a 12 gauge..and not to mention...

Laugh? No. Get pissed and kill you? Pretty likely.

I have 7+1... if someone survives...and can even move or be recognized after 8 rounds of birdshot from 15 feet..

I really think most of you guys need to give birdshot a second look..

You seriously overestimate the stopping power of birdshot. I think you need to give it a serious 3rd or 4th look.

buckshot if good if your not going to look and just spray and pray within 15 feet, but horrible for accuracy, percision or whatever ESPECIALLY inside your house..

If I let my 12 gauge off in my apartment WITH BUCKSHOT.. My last problem is going to be if i hit the guy or not. i know im going to hit him.. Along with my 60 inch sony bravia, my entertainment center, my 25 gallon fish tank.. we should be practicing more on precision and accuracy instead of what round we are using.

You obviously have never patterend shotgun rounds. You are just as likely to destroy your valuables with bird or buck shot.

I am impressed by these.. but I still stand by my desicion.. I don't plan on shooting once. I plan on shooting until the threat stops.. 7 rounds of birdshot will and has killed MANY a bad guy.

And what if he's shooting back with real stopping power? 7 rounds of birdshot may slow the BG down (Assuming you hit all 7 times) But it very likely won't stop him.

Birdshot will be lucky to get you 3" of penetration. Simply not enough to stop someone. It'll never reach vital organs. It will literally only cause flesh wounds. http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot22.htm

You'd be better off with a .22LR http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot13.htm

Okay, so please someone enlighten me (i'm kinda new to the shotty stuff ). Wouldn't the choke play a big part in which shell you would be using?.

NOPE! Not at home defense ranges. This was tested by boxotruth
The Box O' Truth #44 - Shotgun Chokes and Buckshot
The Box O' Truth #45 - Shotgun Chokes and Buckshot Part Two
The Box O' Truth #42 - Precision Shooting With Buckshot

[Chip W]

I have 00 for HD.
Alongside the .40 cal also.

A good friend of mine is a Philly firefighter and takes EMT shifts for over time. He took a guy to the ER for a so-called "accidental discharge" involving 12ga birdshot. Basically this homeowner bought a shottie after his place was robbed once before, he got jumpy in the middle of the night, jumped out of bed and managed to royally screw up and he tripped and fell and pulled the trigger. He had birdshot pellets buried pretty deep in his flesh but despite the proximity of muzzle and body it did not rip him up like one might have expected. He was treated for his injuries and was discharged that same night.
I hope to God I never need to use any firearm in a defensive situation but if I did I would want to be able to count on it's efficacy, I personally wouldn't put my trust in birdshot to effectively protect my family from harm.

[Michele]

I have 00 for HD.
Alongside the .40 cal also.
<snip>
He had birdshot pellets buried pretty deep in his flesh but despite the proximity of muzzle and body it did not rip him up like one might have expected. He was treated for his injuries and was discharged that same night.

I still wouldn't want to find out! I'm sure even though it wasn't all that bad, it's not a mistake he's ever going to make again. Why didn't he have the safety on?

I hope to God I never need to use any firearm in a defensive situation but if I did I would want to be able to count on it's efficacy, I personally wouldn't put my trust in birdshot to effectively protect my family from harm.

^^ My sentiments exactly.^^

[Neko456]

Michele wrote - I live by myself (with 1 dog) so securing any family members is a non issue.

Both my handguns are always ready, so is my AR with 30 rounds.

I had a bit of a situation a while back, woken up from a sound sleep, and I reacted in a split second (turned out to be something that would give you a true belly laugh) and grabbed the shotty. I'm guessing from everything that I've heard/read, I became somewhat conditioned and went for the shotty first.

456 - Pretty as that dog is in your picture I'm surprises anybody could sneak up on you a good GSD is a home defense system. But I know you don't want to get him/her hurt but they will let you know if somebodies around or in your house. Giving you plenty of time to choose which weapon, really a barking GSD is almost as scary as a racking 12 gauge to an intruder, imagine both at the same times.

I have two GSD & a Rottie feel pretty safe Camping the woods by myself or home at night nobody but family moved around in my house. Off gun topic but a good GSD is a aid in home defense imo.

[Al LaVodka]

I am reading this literally as HOME DEFENSE. I need to defend myself in or just around my HOME where I will DEFEND myself from to make a threat go away, one way or the other.

I'd prefer BB shotshells that can be had for $2.50+/round so I recommend lead #2 shot (.15 caliber; Remington 2-3/4" Express 1-1/4 oz. at 1300 fps) as we are talking more like 15 feet than meters...

Al

[tdyoung58]

bird or buck, and why

way to may variables. How far might the longest shot be
what kind of walls, sheetrock or slats with plaster over them,
single level or stairs, about 5 other questions

myself I have a multilevel, old house with horsehair plaster over slats, longest shot probably 25' so I use the cheapest OO I can find

[freddy g]

I keep my 18" mossberg loaded with winchester military grade 00 buck (as you can see in that picture) for home defence,that being said i really doubt a bad guy is going to do any laughing after being hit at close range with 12 gauge birdshot,if he were hit in the upper torso at 15' he would be blind knocked down and breathing through little holes in his neck,i have heard this argument 100 times and it's funny when guys say birdshot wont go through a tee shirt let alone a sweat shirt of a small jacket just for kicks me and my friend randy placed my old carrhart heavy work jacket on the back boards at his hunting club range,we walked back 20 feet (we used 20' because most HD situations would be 10 to 15 feet away so we went 20' for argument sake)and blasted it with 2.75" low brass #6 birdshot every pellit went in one side and out the other, i truly believe if you hit the bad guy with the above mentioned round he is not going to stand there and laugh at you, i have both so i use the more powerful round of course,just like the 9mm vs 45 debate both will kill you.

OH and the big hole in the center was with a 1 oz slug,those went clean through at any distance as did the 00 buck,but thats a no brainer..............all the little holes are just 1 round of #6 shot.

[tlgpa]

just for kicks me and my friend randy placed my old carrhart heavy work jacket on the back boards at his hunting club range,we walked back 20 feet (we used 20' because most HD situations would be 10 to 15 feet away so we went 20' for argument sake)and blasted it with 2.75" low brass #6 birdshot every pellit went in one side and out the other,

Time and time again people shoot clothing and think it proves something. All it proves is if you're attacked by clothing, you can put holes in it. Unless you're shooting ballistics gel or volumes of water (which has been provided several times in this thread) you have no clue of penetration and stopping power.

just like the 9mm vs 45 debate both will kill you.

No, not just like the 9mm/.45 debate. Both of them can likely kill you. It is very unlikely to ever be killed by birdshot. It's proven not to have penetrating power to reach vital organs.

[gumbys1up]

Ok everyone PM'ing me and saying im stupid and giving me negative feedback simply bcuz i use birdshot and they don't, and everything else.

Let me blast you in the face with my 12 gauge 3-4 times.. and we will see if it doesn't do anything.

within the distance most will be shooting 20 feet or less.. Im really not that concerend with what ammo i am shooting.

It's a 12 gauge shotgun
its not a single shot, 25 auto, derringer.

its a pump action 12 gauge shotgun.

anyone who believe that within 20 feet, birdshot wont or cant kill you. Is smoking crack. And everyone saying Well in my ballistics gel and water tank it does this and that and this and that.

YOUR BALLISTICS GEL IS NOT A PERSON NO MATTER HOW HARD YOU TRY TO MAKE IT SEEM LIKE ONE.

I dont care what it does. At damn near point blank I can assure you birdshot will and HAS MANY OF TIMES gotten the job done with a decent head/chest shot. If for some reason they dont magically get REALLY fucked up from the 1st shot fired.

It's called reloading...work the action.... pull trigger. problem solved.

If I shot someone with 20 feet with a shitty aimed headshot, with my 12 gauge and birdshot. it would kill them. End of fucking story.
if some odd reason it didn't.. i can shoot agian.

Anyone that can survive 6-8, 12 gauge shotgun(ANYTHING birdshot-target-slugs) Blast at almost point blank. Is either wearing damn good body armour or is made of metal.

[Carnes]

Ok everyone PM'ing me and saying im stupid and giving me negative feedback simply bcuz i use birdshot and they don't, and everything else.

Let me blast you in the face with my 12 gauge 3-4 times.. and we will see if it doesn't do anything.

The poll in this thread is, "Which is better for home defense, bird shot, or buck shot?"

The thread is not, "Is it possible to kill an intruder with bird shot?"

I don't want to get shot in the face with any kind of gun, but if I had to choose, I would rather get shot with bird shot than with buck shot. Mebby they would both kill me dead, but I like my chances with the bird shot a whole lot better.

Not only is it common sense, but the ballistics have been verified... Buck shot and bird shot preform differently, with buck shot being more lethal on a human target.

If you make posts suggesting that bird shot is superior to buck, of course you are going to get a lot of shit from people... You may as well try to say that OC is illegal.

Maybe you were just trying to say that you feel that bird shot is adequate, but keep in mind that the question is 'which is better,' and that is how people are framing your responses. If you are only trying to suggest that both bird and buck shot are adequate that is a little off topic and probably needs to be more clearly explained.