45acp feed problems

[billthom]

All,
Everytime I reload a 45 acp and feed it into my HK Tactical the bullet falls out of the brass.

Here is the scenario. I'm reloading with a Dillon 550, RCBS dies, Winchester x1 fired Brass, CCI 300 primer, 200gr X-treme bullet, 6.8 of Power Pistol, pre COAL 1.267. This is what happens; I load up my HK Tactical Magazine with the 45acp reloaded rounds, insert the full magazine, release the slide allowing the round to be fed by the cycle of operation itself. Once the round seats the bullet comes out of the brass. Then I have a nasty mess of gun powder to clean. At first I thought it was the crimp; But, now I think it is the COAL. I got lucky after approx 15 rds, I finally got one bullet to stay intact. I remeasured the bullet and it measured to be 1.226. Can someone pls help me with this problem?

[asavo757]

Sounds like a crimp problem. I would start there first. Load a couple dummy rounds and adjust crimp a little at a time to see if stops problem.Also would be a good idea to measure bullets to make sure there to spec.I load the same bullets on the same press no problems. I use 1.230 for c.o.l. but check load data for your powder befor adjusting.

[billthom]

asavo757,
I have adjusted the crimp so tight it has deformed the bullet. I even loosened the crimp to almost none. I even bought some factory ammo and went from there. Still no out come. What is your crimp diamater?

[Franchi20/28]

Put your calipers on a new bullet. What is the dia?

If you crimped the brass around the bullet to the point of deforming the bullet, how could it fall out of the brass?

Sounds like you are not seating the bullets deep enough into the brass to get a grip on them.

Speer 13th edition lists 1.155" to 1.275" for COL depending on bullet used so you are in the right range....unless you are not reading your measuring instrument correctly. What are you using?

[GUNGUY45]

What size is your expander? Not the "bell" part, but the area below that.
Sounds like it could be oversized, not getting enough tension.

[Pizza Bob]

Are you using a taper-crimp die? If you are using the crimp shoulder in the seating die, there is no place for the case mounth to turn-in (most bullets meant for .45 ACP have no cannelure), thus your bullet deformation. You need a separate taper-crimp die, which just swages the case down to a smaller diameter around the bullet, while leaving the case mouth unmolested, so that it can properly headspace. (Before I get flamed - I know that in reality the .45 and other rimless cartridges usually headspace on the extractor - but the design of the cartridge is such that it is supposed to headspace on the case mouth). Good luck.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

[Xringshooter]

All,
Everytime I reload a 45 acp and feed it into my HK Tactical the bullet falls out of the brass.

Here is the scenario. I'm reloading with a Dillon 550, RCBS dies, Winchester x1 fired Brass, CCI 300 primer, 200gr X-treme bullet, 6.8 of Power Pistol, pre COAL 1.267. This is what happens; I load up my HK Tactical Magazine with the 45acp reloaded rounds, insert the full magazine, release the slide allowing the round to be fed by the cycle of operation itself. Once the round seats the bullet comes out of the brass. Then I have a nasty mess of gun powder to clean. At first I thought it was the crimp; But, now I think it is the COAL. I got lucky after approx 15 rds, I finally got one bullet to stay intact. I remeasured the bullet and it measured to be 1.226. Can someone pls help me with this problem?

My bold above.

My question: How do you know the bullet is coming out of the brass when the round is seated? Does it kinda just drop out of the barrel or does the bullet and case separate when you pull the slide back?

A round going into the chamber, even under the circumstances you stated, shouldn't come out of the case unless the energy of the slide stripping the round from the magazine and seating it in the chamber was great enough to overcome the crimp holding the bullet in place. Then, unless the bullet diameter was way undersized, the bullet wouldn't drop through the barrel, a correct size bullet would just lodge there in the barrel.

However, a short chamber or too much bullet sticking out of the case could possibly jam the bullet into the rifling and if the crimp wasn't correct when you pulled back on the slide it could separate the bullet from the case.

That's the best I can hazard without actually seeing what is going on.

You say you are using RCBS dies, are you crimping at the same time you are seating the bullet? If so, you are putting a roll crimp on the case, which you do not want to do on that type of round. You want to get a separate taper crimp die (any brand will do) and put it in station 4 of the 550. In station 3 you just want to seat the bullet to the correct depth and when you go to station 4 you set the taper crimp to give the case a good firm squeeze around the bullet. In station 2 you want to get a flare that you can just barely feel or see, that is all you need to get the bullet started when it goes to station 3.

[Lycanthrope]

Some good info here....some not so good.

First off, rule out the obvious and mic a couple bullets.

Next, case sizing has more to do with holding the bullet in place than the crimp does on an autoloader. Make sure your sizer is kissing the shell plate.

Crimp should be a taper crimp (check your dies) and should just remove the bell. Mic the casing near the bullet and you should get around .470-.471.


Now....here is where I suspect your real problem is at:

RCBS does taper crimp and seat at the same die. How far you wind the die body down changes the crimp. How far you wind the inside seater down will adjust OAL. To set these dies, you need to wind the inner seating assembly up.....and set the crimp FIRST. Then you wind the center assembly down to adjust seating depth. Trying to set the seating depth first or at the same time will give you nightmares. This is why you were crushing brass. You had crimp coming in before the bullet was done seating.

I highly recommend an OAL of 1.250 to start.

To make it easier I recommend you get a spare die and pull the seating assembly out of it and use it to crimp only. Use your original seating/crimp die as a seating die by winding the die body up until there is no crimp and winding the center assembly down to get your seating depth and OAL.

LycanfeelfreetoPMmeforanyclarificationthrope

[Xringshooter]

RCBS does make both a roll crimp/seater die and a taper crimp/seater die for the .45acp/.45GAP/.45 AutoRim. Check to make sure which one you have. The roll crimp/seater is p/n 18942 and the taper crimp/seater is 18962. I bought my RCBS set a while ago (years) and it had come with the roll crimp/seater so I bought the taper crimp die.

Other than that, listen to what Lycanthrope explained, he did a hell of a lot better than me in a lot less words.

[YBNORMAL]

I think the credit for this procedure goes to Lycan iirc (this is what worked for me to set up the die to do both) I will tell you though that I have found that doing seating and crimping in two stages is easier IMO:

Make a dummy round-

1-put empty case into ram and go to the top
2-back out seater plug and turn IN die body till it just kisses the case, then back up die body a few quarter turns (not critical)
3-seat a bullet to your desired OAL
4-back out seater plug several turns
5-turn die body down until it touches the round (ram up of course), then go however much more you want to crimp (not much)

Setting up the die-

1-loosen seater and die body way out
2-put dummy round in ram and go all the way up
3-turn die body only (make sure seater is not allowed to touch bullet yet)till snug on the round, and lock die body ring(keeping ram up)
4-turn seater plug till snug on bullet, lock seater plug. (keeping ram up)

Naturaly case length will affect crimp.

That should get you close, if I want to change the OAL a few thousanths I will snug the lock ring on the die body more or less to the press. Or tighten or loosen the support stud on my press (Lyman turret, probably not the best way, but like I said, having a second stage is better.) I set up a die once to try it out (both at same time), but with lead I just didn't like the slight amount of shaving I was getting so I just seat 100 and then crimp 100 <shrugs>, plated and jacketed seemed to work well though.