Ownership

[DEADMANretrns]

I am wondering how i go about getting ownership papers on a pistol that was given to me by my uncle which was owned by his father and he does not have any form of ownership papers his dad has been deceased for 5-10 years he did not want it and asked me if i wanted it so if anyone can give me information on how to obtain this

[Statkowski]

What you are asking for does not exist. In Pennsylvania, a firearm does not come with a title, or certificate of title, or proof of ownership. Would you ask for the same for a ballpoint pen? Yes, it has a serial number, but so does your toaster, or television.

Now, for your uncle to transfer "ownership" of it to you legally requires that the transfer be effected either through a licensed firearms dealer or the county sheriff.

[jcabin]

Have your uncle come over immediately and take the handgun back into his possession. Meet him at a gun shop, have him bring the gun with him, and the gun shop (FFL, federal firearms licensee) will then transfer the gun legally into your possession.

[Xringshooter]

Your uncle can give you the gun but it has to be through a licensed dealer or your local sheriff dept. Your uncle does not have to prove anything. Your uncles father can give a gun to his son (your uncle) with no paperwork required (as per PA law). It then becomes your uncles to do with what he wants. If he wants to give it to you, you both go to your local licensed dealer (most sheriff depts won't do it even though PA laws say they are supposed to), explain what you want to do (transfer from him to you), he gives the gun to the dealer, the dealer logs it into his books, you fill out the federal and state paperwork, the dealer calls the PSP to do the background check on you and if you get the go ahead, you pay the dealer his fee and you take it home. That's it. Now it will be in the PSP sales data base (which the police use illegally, but that's another story altogether) with your name attached. The dealer cannot determine (nor is he obligated to try) who owned the gun prior to this transaction. If you do not have a LTCF (License To Carry a Firearm) you then have to take the gun directly home. Put it in a something and put it in the truk of the car, or if no trunk, in an area inside that is hard to reach if you are driving. Go straight home and enjoy the new gift.

[Franchi20/28]

Can't he legally give the gun to a sibling who could then give it to their child thereby avoiding the whole transfer thing?

[jcabin]

Can't he legally give the gun to a sibling who could then give it to their child thereby avoiding the whole transfer thing?

No. There is no exception for gifting or selling firearms between siblings without a transfer through a FFL or Sheriff.

[kcr121]

Can't he legally give the gun to a sibling who could then give it to their child thereby avoiding the whole transfer thing?

No. There are no provisions for exempted transfers between siblings in Pennsylvania. To transfer from aunt/uncle to niece/nephew, there must be at least one transfer through an FFL or county sheriff. See below.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6111: Sale or transfer of firearms

...

(c) Duty of other persons.--Any person who is not a licensed importer, manufacturer or dealer and who desires to sell or transfer a firearm to another unlicensed person shall do so only upon the place of business of a licensed importer, manufacturer, dealer or county sheriff's office, the latter of whom shall follow the procedure set forth in this section as if he were the seller of the firearm. The provisions of this section shall not apply to transfers between spouses or to transfers between a parent and child or to transfers between grandparent and grandchild.

[Franchi20/28]

OK. I was thinking it was "relations of the first degree" or something legalese like that, but wasn't sure. That's why I posed it as a question. You guys here are always right on top of these things.

Thanks for setting me straight.

[rovert97]

if both you and your uncle have a LTCF, cant he just "loan" you the gun, until you both can get around to doing the official transfer at an FFL?

[kcr121]

if both you and your uncle have a LTCF, cant he just "loan" you the gun, until you both can get around to doing the official transfer at an FFL?

Yes. Actually, only the receiver of a "loaned" firearm must have an LTCF, not both parties. See below.

18 Pa.C.S. § 6115: Loans on, or lending or giving firearms prohibited

(a) Offense defined.--No person shall make any loan secured by mortgage, deposit or pledge of a firearm, nor, except as provided in subsection (b), shall any person lend or give a firearm to another or otherwise deliver a firearm contrary to the provisions of this subchapter.
(b) Exception.--

(1) Subsection (a) shall not apply if any of the following apply:

(i) The person who receives the firearm is licensed to carry a firearm under section 6109 (relating to licenses).

(ii) The person who receives the firearm is exempt from licensing.
(iii) The person who receives the firearm is engaged in a hunter safety program certified by the Pennsylvania Game Commission or a firearm training program or competition sanctioned or approved by the National Rifle Association.
(iv) The person who receives the firearm meets all of the following:

(A) Is under 18 years of age.
(B) Pursuant to section 6110.1 (relating to possession of firearm by minor) is under the supervision, guidance and instruction of a responsible individual who:

(I) is 21 years of age or older; and
(II) is not prohibited from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105 (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms).

(v) The person who receives the firearm is lawfully hunting or trapping and is in compliance with the provisions of Title 34 (relating to game).
(vi) A bank or other chartered lending institution is able to adequately secure firearms in its possession.

(2) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the transfer of a firearm under 20 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 (relating to intestate succession) or by bequest if the individual receiving the firearm is not precluded from owning or possessing a firearm under section 6105.
(3) Nothing in this section shall be construed to prohibit the loaning or giving of a firearm to another in one's dwelling or place of business if the firearm is retained within the dwelling or place of business.
(4) Nothing in this section shall prohibit the relinquishment of firearms to a third party in accordance with 23 Pa.C.S. § 6108.3 (relating to relinquishment to third party for safekeeping).