Still More Bad Press For The M-4

[Rundownfid]

While I don't disagree with much that has been commented here, the article itself leaves much to be desired.

"The Taliban are meanwhile using heavier bullets that allow them to fire at U.S. and NATO troops from distances that are out of range of the M4."

The lack of understanding of ballistics demonstrated above doesn't instill much confidence. The M4 is less than ideal in open country, and much of Afghanistan is unbelievably open country. However, for those in vehicles and posted in urban areas it is an excellent weapon. When we get to wherever next we go, we will need to reevaluate and issue the best compromise for that environment. The media often comments on the appropriateness of others actions, however, their own lack of grasp of the intricacies of the decision destroys their credibility, in my eyes.

[billt]

A lot of this is based on the liability we've placed on our troops by equipping them with .22's to go into battle, regardless of the type of engagements that are encountered.

In WW II we had the .30-06 M-1 Garand as the standard battle rifle. We also had the M-1 and M-2 Carbines equipped with a smaller .30 caliber round for "CQB". Both were effective enough to assure us victory in 2 major theaters of battle against well equipped armies managed by an educated military staff. Now it appears we have all we can do against small bunches of goat herders equipped with guns that outclassed us in the jungles of Viet Nam over 40 years ago.

It puts everyone involved at an extreme disadvantage when you start off with a caliber that was designed to kill rodents, not men. Regardless of what type of rifle you chamber it in, or how long of a barrel you put on it, you still have little more than a varmint gun. A very "cool" looking one, but a varmint gun none the less.

We've tried different bullets, different powders, different barrel lengths, different twist rates, only to end up right back where we started. With a varmint rifle.

Even as it finally dawned on people that high powered .22's leave a lot to be desired as a battle weapon, we then try to provide a cheap band aid fix with trying to make the weapon into something it isn't with a bunch of "new" calibers. The issue here is none of them have caught on enough to the point you don't have to hunt for ammunition every time you want to shoot one. The 6.5 Grendel, 6.8 SPC, and several others just help keep this overrated weapon in the inventory longer than it should be, or ever should have been.

Now, with a sitting President who all but hates the military, and would rather fund socialist programs for this nations minority communities, it appears our military will be stuck with this dog with fleas for some time to come. Bill T.

[jjeez]

So they are saying the AK is more accurate at longer distances? I take it they have (whoever they are) fired a comparison test?
Yikes...I love and own both rifle systems but its pretty obvious the AK is not as accurate...

[billt]

I love and own both rifle systems but its pretty obvious the AK is not as accurate...

As these articles appear over and over again, it is becoming apparently obvious it is as accurate as it needs to be, in order to defeat our "accurate" varmint rifles in most every type of theater of engagement. You need to look at the scoreboard if your not sure who won or lost. Bill T.

[Azzy]

An Army study found that the 5.56mm bullets fired from the M4s don’t retain enough velocity past 1,000 feet to kill an enemy. In Afghanistan, forces are often up to 2,500 feet apart.

Scales said the U.S. military simply needs to engineer a better weapon – he said the M8, a weapon that was under development before being halted several years ago, could be revived and improved for Afghanistan

And, the M8... is chambered in 5.56... with a similar length barrel to the M4.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XM8_rifle

[afrattner]

(Excuse my language) Fuck yes. I wish I could afford to buy one. They are great weapons. Unfortunately I don't have 5 or so grand lying around. If I did I'd probably buy 4 or 5 1911s anyway...

Then thats what needs to happen, give the boys the tools.

Many Australian soldiers regret the replacement of SLR with the F88 in the late 80's.....back in Nam the SLR served them well in the dense jungle.

I think its not just the M4, its really the cartridge and all users of the 5.56NATO are all feeling the same thing.

The 5.56NATO is an awesome cartridge but is limited.

People need to stop knocking the M4 and see the real issue at hand

[Andrew17019]

I think is not just the M4, its really the cartridge and all users of the 5.56NATO are all feeling the same thing.

The 5.56NATO is an awesome cartridge but is limited.

People need to stop knocking the M4 and see the real issue at hand

^This!









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[jjeez]

As these articles appear over and over again, it is becoming apparently obvious it is as accurate as it needs to be, in order to defeat our "accurate" varmint rifles in most every type of theater of engagement. You need to look at the scoreboard if your not sure who won or lost. Bill T.

I see your point and agree that there is clearly a need for different systems in different environments. Where I live to be honest I think either would be just about as good as the other in a SHTF scenario.
J

[billt]

Where I live to be honest I think either would be just about as good as the other in a SHTF scenario.
J

Agreed, just as long as one reconciles the fact that killing a bedroom intruder from across a queen size mattress is not in the same class as taking the same weapon into war and distributing it to hundreds of thousands of soldiers to take down a foreign government. Bill T.

[jjeez]

Agreed, just as long as one reconciles the fact that killing a bedroom intruder from across a queen size mattress is not in the same class as taking the same weapon into war and distributing it to hundreds of thousands of soldiers to take down a foreign government. Bill T.

I agree, and I am sure its more about money than anything. I would grab my pistol for the bedroom intruder but the M4 for anything outside that I need around here, I wouldn't need anything past 200 yards...