Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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Thread: Range closure

  1. #1
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    (Clearfield County)
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    Default Range closure

    The Philipsburg Rod & Gun Club was closed 4 years ago for alleged danger for lead on the ground. the following is a synopsis of where we are.


    You've all got some of the facts straight here, but a little knowledge is dangerous, so please bear with me. Park Manager, Chris Reese and his daughter, Rachel Waggoner, went on this crusade 4 years ago. Right off the bat, there's a ban on nepotism in State Government. No one has even questioned this fact. They both have college degrees in recreation and/or park management. They had no expertise or training on taking lead samples, yet they gathered up a jar of pellets they scraped off the ground and somewhere came up with a percent of lead in the area. Yes, we have evidence that they wanted to give our clubhouse and grounds to the snowmobilers. Yes, we have evidence that they and Reese's wife stated they were going to get rid of us during a Church Social event in Philipsburg. They shut us down for the "Lead" problem. Unfortunately, our membership decided at the outset not to hire a lawyer and fight them. We looked for other alternatives, but found none. Finally under the leadership of Dave Laux, we hired a lawyer, a consultant from a list of "approved" consultants provided by DCNR, several experts in the range management field and after spending over $30,000.00 we have proven without a shadow of a doubt, legally, scientifically, environmentally and well within the bounds of common sense, that we and our lead are no problem to the birds and bees, flora and fauna or humans that frequent the park. The original "Scope of Work" provided by Reese and Waggoner was constantly changed, modified and updated as we began to provide answers to their "problem". They tried to nickle and dime us by making us study a Robin who MIGHT have eaten a worm that MIGHT have ingested a lead pellet and MIGHT have fed it to its' young. We had to study the moles and shrews that MIGHT ingest lead pellets and then be eaten by a hawk. We had to study Kestrels who MIGHT catch a Dragonfly or Mouse that MIGHT have ingested lead. We had to test our water well. They thought they had us there, but we found NO lead in it. We had to study PAH's, Polycyclic Aromatic Hydrocarbons which could be found in clay targets. PAH's are found in soil, oil and COAL!!!! We debunked that when we explained they were putting down mega-millions more PAH's by paving parking lots and roads with asphalt. We are exposed to mega-millions of PAH's from COAL trucks running the highways. They claim we are shooting in wetlands. Our lawyer visited the site wearing high rubber boots and asked me where the wetlands were that we were shooting into. I told him we were standing in it. The swampy area was well outside the area of shotfall. I took him to a boundary line and told him to straddle it. I explained he could fire a gun with his right hand into an area approved for hunting but could not fire with his left hand because that was club property. We have gathered an impressive array of State Senators and Representatives who have worked tirelessly on our behalf. Lots of mistakes were made along the way. We were referred to someone in the NRA Range Division. He was the wrong guy!! We discovered that fact by accident. The right guy was across the hall but the first guy for some reason didn't send us to him. That wasted a year. The right guy, Eric Whitescarver, would have helped us immeasurably, but by that time we had spent tons of money and had far surpassed the environmental impact studies, risk management analyses, BMP's that Eric would have guided us through. At this point, we have presented John Norbeck, Parks Department Chief, with a lease, a check for one year lease payment, an ESP (Environmental Stewardship Plan)also called a BMP (Best Management Plan) and an EPR (End of Project Report). These documents total over 350 pages. The DCNR Attorney, Kim Hummel, told our lawyer that they would need 10 days to review the documentation. So far they are in the 30th day. They flat refuse to sign the lease. They don't want us to drop lead in this Park, yet they operate dozens of Parks throught the State that have been built on Revolutionary War, Civil War and other battles where lead was the projectile of choice. They have done nothing to remediate that lead laden ground and allow thousands of people to traverse those grounds annually. Throughout all this, Norbeck, Reese and others have attended meetings with DEP, Game Commission, Fish Commission and our Legislators. Norbeck stated at one meeting that they had given us a new lease and we wouldn't sign it. That document said the "Discharge of Firearms was Prohibited". Norbeck denied that phrase was in the lease. Our lawyer pointed out to him where it appeared 3 times. Norbeck presented an expert from the Game Commission who is responsible for the rifle ranges on State Game Lands. He told us that they "cleaned up" the rifle ranges, including Scotia, by doing some minor excavating, some minor sifting to remove the big chunks of lead, treated the material with a compound called EcoBond and put the lead laden material right back into the backstops. Our Consultant, Dr. Richard Peddicord, in his ESP explains how we would use EcoBond and lime to neutralize the lead. Norbeck's only expert witness actually substantiated our plan. At that meeting, Norbeck greeted Peddicord, shook hands with him and told him how pleased he was with the work Peddicord had done for him on a project in another State. He was happy with the results of that project but Peddicord's work here wasn't satisfactory. DEP, Fish Commission and Game Commission have publicly stated that they have no problem with our operation. We are in a standoff not knowing whether this denial is Norbeck, his boss, DCNR Chif John Quigley or Gov. Rendell. That's about it. We're waiting and would appreciate any pressure anyone out there can put on the powers that can get our lease signed.

    Paul A. Bobby,

    Secretary, PR&G
    Last edited by shootinstructor; May 27th, 2010 at 04:01 PM. Reason: misspelling

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2006
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    Diegolandia, Pennsylvania
    (Philadelphia County)
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    Default Re: Range cloure

    I wish you guys the best of luck...

    but that gargantuan block of text is in dire need of some formatting. Break it up in proper paragraphs, and you may get more people to read through it.
    ==============
    “If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquillity of servitude than the animating contest of freedom, — go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!”
    ~Samuel Adams

    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it."
    ~Thomas Jefferson, 1791

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
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    Default Re: Range closure

    I read through it all and that is a shitty situation. Best of luck to you.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Range cloure

    Quote Originally Posted by LorDiego01 View Post
    I wish you guys the best of luck...

    but that gargantuan block of text is in dire need of some formatting. Break it up in proper paragraphs, and you may get more people to read through it.
    Yep.......

    BTW, nice rep #..........

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2009
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    127.1.1.1, Pennsylvania
    (Bucks County)
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    Default Re: Range closure

    I think you are looking for help in this matter?

    What kind of help are you looking for?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Waynesboro, Pennsylvania
    (Franklin County)
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    Default Re: Range closure

    Get ahold of the local tv station and let their man on the seen get it firgured out.. That really sucks. I am rather fond of the phillipsburg area. My grandparents owned a camp in black moshannon .. I havent need there in 14 years..... Best of luck. If your info is all correct ...Get ahold of a tv station!
    In God We Trust............................

  7. #7
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Range closure

    IS your club a member of any of these organizations?

    http://www.pfsc.org/


    http://www.pennarifleandpistol.org/

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    nicholson, Pennsylvania
    (Wyoming County)
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    Default Re: Range closure

    Thats not cool great and mighty wall of text, they railroaded you.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    Bells Landing, Pennsylvania
    (Clearfield County)
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    Default Re: Range closure

    Thanks for all the advice. I've been writing about this for 4 years and I'm not an english teacher so I'll just put out the facts. We don't need criticism, we need people to prod their legislators into doing their jobs. Who's running this state? Right now it seems the unelected, unaccountable political appointees are. The legislators approve their budgets and in so doing are signing their paychecks. No one seems to have the balls to jump on these guys. We've had no response from any organization in Pa. even though we invited several of them to our meetings in Harrisburg and published letters in papers all over the State. I also posted this on HuntingPa.com and had one reply that went nowhere, so I stopped wasting my time.. the attitude is "It won't happen to us." I beg your forgiveness for not putting this in nice paragraphs. Leave it alone and go to work on your legislators.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default Re: Range closure

    We've had no response from any organization in Pa. even though we invited several of them to our meetings in Harrisburg and published letters in papers all over the State. I also posted this on HuntingPa.com and had one reply that went nowhere, so I stopped wasting my time.. the attitude is "It won't happen to us." I

    Please let me know what organizations you have contacted and the people you spoke with.

    I will not contact any legislatures until I understand the steps you went through, who you spoke with, what was said, and how the legislators fit into this situation.

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