SSN still "Required" for handgun purchase

[gnbrotz]

Despite Mike Stollenwerk's court victory earlier this year, the PA State Police are still requiring the provision of your SSN when purchasing a handgun. Here are the details of my recent experience:

I purchased a pistol on Saturday, Sept. 22. in Gettysburg, PA. I found this process very enlightening, as this was the first time I've purchased a handgun at a retail location. The pistol was purchased at a 'single-location' sporting goods store, not a chain.

After I made my selection, I was given two forms to fill out. One federal, one state. The federal form clearly stated that my SSN was optional, so I wrote "declined" in that box. The guy at the counter said, "That's ok, they'll give it to us anyhow". I then proceeded to fill out the state form, and again wrote "declined" in the SSN box, though there was no indication that it was optional. I asked about it, mentioning that I thought there had been a recent change. The guy made a call to someone, then said that it was mandatory. I also questioned the need to provide my emploment info, including company address, as I personally didn't see the point to that. They told me every box on the form was mandatory, so they took the one I had written "declined" on, and gave me a new one, which I completely filled out, providing all info, including my SSN.

While I was doing this, the guy took the federal form and made a phone call. While on the phone, he proceeded to fill in my SSN, showing it to me and asking, "Is this you". I confirmed that it was.

When I went to the register to pay, I asked a lady in the office (she seemed to be the highest ranking person there at the time) why my SSN had been filled in on the federal form when I had chosen to decline it. She told me that any blank left empty would result in the paperwork being "not processed" and if I didn't want to give the info to tear up the paper and leave the gun behind, but if I wanted the gun, I had to provide ALL of the info.

I told her that I didn't have a 'beef' with her or the store, and understood that she had a lot of hoops to jump through as a dealer. I was just trying to ascertain how her understanding of the requirements differed from mine. I also specifically asked again about the federal form, pointing out that it clearly stated that on that form, I could decline my SSN if I wished. She told me that even though the Feds made it optional, PA required the federal form to be complete, including my SSN.

My big complaint about the whole situation isn't about whether I have to provide the info or not, it's about the PA State Police (once again) being able to ignore existing law and court rulings upholding said laws.

[D-FENS]

My FFL said last week that he was expecting new State forms shortly.

[Pa. Patriot]

I got this last week:

[SharpShooter88]

Isn't there a thing about states not being able to undermind federal law? I mean I could be taking the constitution out of context but I am pretty sure that it states in there somewhere something about states not being able to pass laws that impede on federal law? Am I correct or not?

Anyway, in some way shape or form you have been violated by the state of ed rendell...err i mean....Pennsylvania...The state cops are only doing what they are told....Dont shoot the messenger, remember! But the whole situation is messed up. Maybe you should write your local politician and ask him what all this crap is about, and see if you can get an answer that way. If he cant help you then I don't know who can!

[Pa. Patriot]

...Anyway, in some way shape or form you have been violated by the state of ed rendell...err i mean....Pennsylvania...The state cops are only doing what they are told....Dont shoot the messenger,

Incorrect.

The PSP is solely responsible for requiring the SSN on the PA "application/record of sale"

They lost the lawsuit filed against them and now have to comply w/the privacy act, as they should have from day one.

[SharpShooter88]

Incorrect.

The PSP is solely responsible for requiring the SSN on the PA "application/record of sale"

They lost the lawsuit filed against them and now have to comply w/the privacy act, as they should have from day one.

I was unaware of that situation and holy crap notify someone! That isn't exactly what you and I would call "legal" now is it?

Dont you love politics? When it comes to "the man" there is always a grey area as to what is legal and what isn't.

[XD45]

dont they have your SS # anyway, giving it to them just helps id you quicker?!

[Statkowski]

For a state agency, or any government agency, to give out your SSN to a nongovernment third party violates the Privacy Act. How did the gun store get your SSN to insert onto the federal form if you didn't give it to them?

[Pa. Patriot]

For a state agency, or any government agency, to give out your SSN to a nongovernment third party violates the Privacy Act. How did the gun store get your SSN to insert onto the federal form if you didn't give it to them?

When you call PICS system it asks you to input the buyers PA drivers license number.
It then reads back ad spells the buyers first and last name followed by their SSN.

[VeryPrivate]

Isn't there a thing about states not being able to undermind federal law? I mean I could be taking the constitution out of context but I am pretty sure that it states in there somewhere something about states not being able to pass laws that impede on federal law? Am I correct or not?

Article VI - Known as the Supremacy Clause.