PICS Reversal - Next LTCF

[Kratos]

One month and two days ago, I tried to purchase my first handgun, a Glock 30. I spent about two hours between renting different calibers, finding a gun that I felt comfortable with, and waiting for the background check. I had just picked up a Remington 870 Tactical three months prior, so I was quite surprised when the guy at the counter told me I failed my background check. I was given a PICS challenge form, and informed of the process. This was on my birthday and a real downer.

I filled out my challenge form, wrote a nice letter, included my case information on my two DUIs, and mailed everything in to PICS. I found some PICS contact numbers off this site, but I couldn't get anywhere until they received my paperwork. After about a week I was able to get a hold of the guy handling my case. He told me the issue was that for my second DUI, someone had labeled the offense as an M1 class misdemeanor(imprison able by up to five years), but that for a second DUI it should only be an M class misdemeanor. He said that he had a call in to the DA but had not heard back from him yet.

I had been calling once a week to see if there was any update. Finally this Monday, the PICS guys told me he got a hold of the DA and everything worked out and he will be sending out my reversal letter. I'm hoping it just might be here by the weekend. I must say I was impressed with how polite and helpful the people at PICS were. It would have been nice if email and fax machines could have been used in the process, so instead of taking over a month, everything could have been resolved in a day or two. The guys working there don't have any control over that though.

Now I want to start the process of getting my LTCF. Can I include a copy of my reversal letter to help from this issue potentially coming up with my LTCF? Also, I have read somewhere on this site about DUIs complicating getting a LTCF. Something about the good character clause, I forget exactly what it's called. I live in (edited) county. Does anyone have any experience or insight on this issue? If they do initially deny me on this, will I need to hire an attorney? Any help would be appreciated.

[wallyone]

I thought I sent my challange form directly to the state police, but anyway when I applied for my LTCF I offered a copy of the letter saying that I was not a prohibited person to the man at the counter and he said that he would not need that. But i'm sure that it would not hurt to have it with you, I was told by a salesman at a local gun shop that you should keep a copy of the revercal letter just in case whatever was the snag the first time would come back again to make problems.

[DonM55]

I had a DUI before I applied for my LTCF. Clerk said it didn't matter it was something like 3 in a 5 yr period. Had my LTCF in the mail in about 5 days

[Kratos]

I had a DUI before I applied for my LTCF. Clerk said it didn't matter it was something like 3 in a 5 yr period. Had my LTCF in the mail in about 5 days

Well that's what they're supposed to do. I believe they have denied people with less then three, arguing they pose a risk or something. Has anyone else heard about this?

[DonM55]

wouldn't be surprised if that has happened. Amazed at the differences between sherrif offices.

[ImminentDanger]

Because of the ridiculous Abortive power given to the Sherriff over our guaranteed __RIGHT_TO_KEEP_AND_BEAR_ARMS__, through the 'Character Clause', I would __NOT__ raise the issue.....

I would simply let the PICS system provide the GO / NO-GO reply, and only if necessary, bring out your letter....

Unfortunately,
WHEN DEALING WITH THE LAW AND GUNS, THE MORE INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE,
THE BETTER ABLE THEY ARE TO USE IT AGAINST YOU!!!

...
ID

[MDJschool]

DO NOT show your letter to any criminal justice or law enforcement or any agent acting on behalf of the government (e.g. an FFL). While you may want to keep it for a time the government's computer databases get deleted, there's really no benefit to toting it around to try to make your background transaction check any smoother.

What you should know about PICS is that the caller either gets an approval number or a status of 'undetermined/in-research' or 'denied'. For a sale, only an approval number can complete the transfer. There is probably a legal question as to whether an undetermined status can allow a grant of license, but since any in-research status must be either approved, denied, or be deemed denied within 15 days, a sheriff will imaginably call early and hear a result prior to his 45 days to conduct a background investigation. The caller should not be receiving any information as to why the transferee or applicant is denied or placed into research. Therefore, the letter's contents will be of no help because, to the caller, it does not matter what the letter contains. The PSP already has the issue and resolution documented for their PICS operators to see. While you may suffer from a situation where you never receive an 'instant check' (i.e. the call will always go to operator so they can examine the potential prohibitor and the resolution), they already know you're not prohibited.

The only thing of value you might care to keep with you is the file number indicated on the letter, although given that this is already databased with the PSP, it should be apparent. The file number will point them to the data they need if they aren't already aware without providing any information to the caller, that a sheriff might otherwise try to use to deny you for some other purpose. There should be a number for the PICS lawyer assigned to research your case, a number you may want to call if you have future issues to see if you can get an instant explanation before walking away from a gun store or sheriff in the future without your purchase or license.

If you were denied by PICS for the instant check, the first step of resolution is (probably) through the PSP administrative procedure and not through the Court of Common Pleas.

[Pa. Patriot]

Can I include a copy of my reversal letter to help from this issue potentially coming up with my LTCF?

I would advise NOT doing so.

Because:

DO NOT show your letter to any criminal justice or law enforcement or any agent acting on behalf of the government (e.g. an FFL). While you may want to keep it for a time the government's computer databases get deleted, there's really no benefit to toting it around to try to make your background transaction check any smoother.

What you should know about PICS is that the caller either gets an approval number or a status of 'undetermined/in-research' or 'denied'. For a sale, only an approval number can complete the transfer.

Same will go for the sheriff when he runs PICS.

If PICS denies you (mistakenly) the dealer/sheriff is bound to honor the denial. The letter is not an exception.

If you were denied by PICS for the instant check, the first step of resolution is (probably) through the PSP administrative procedure and not through the Court of Common Pleas.

I concur.

[Kratos]

Thanks for all of the advice. Is the PICS background check the only method a Sheriff will use to look at your criminal history? I assumed the Sheriff's Department did their own independent investigation in addition to using the PICS background check.

[HiredGoon]

Thanks for all of the advice. Is the PICS background check the only method a Sheriff will use to look at your criminal history? I assumed the Sheriff's Department did their own independent investigation in addition to using the PICS background check.

The relevant statute gives the sheriff a lot of latitude in this:

18 Pa.C.S. § 6109: Licenses

(d) Sheriff to conduct investigation.--The sheriff to whom the application is made shall:

(1) investigate the applicant's record of criminal conviction;

(2) investigate whether or not the applicant is under indictment for or has ever been convicted of a crime punishable by imprisonment exceeding one year;

(3) investigate whether the applicant's character and reputation are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety;

(4) investigate whether the applicant would be precluded from receiving a license under subsection (e)(1) or section 6105(h) (relating to persons not to possess, use, manufacture, control, sell or transfer firearms); and

(5) conduct a criminal background, juvenile delinquency and mental health check following the procedures set forth in section 6111 (relating to sale or transfer of firearms), receive a unique approval number for that inquiry and record the date and number on the application.