M4 folding rear site with stock front site?

[PhilaShooter]

I think it will look awkward with the riser protruding out to the front. If you combine the weight of the riser with the weight of the handguard, you may find that the total weight is comparable to a Troy MFR-C (weighs 4 oz.) quad. Consider also the MI SS series or the Troy TRX. These are tubular with only top rails.

Personally, I would do it right and make it look and function right. You won't be happy with it if you keep doing "work arounds".

Al

While I am sure the products you mentioned are great, and I appreciate your help, these are WAY too much money IMO. I would not be willing to dish out $200 for a quad rail....even if I was working, which I am not.

If I can simply add a 6" riser to the front half of the flat-top and it over hangs a little that's perfectly fine with me, and as long as it gives me enough room for a flip-up rear sight which it would.

Also IMO it would still function the same just the scope would be a bit higher and as far as looks, well, I'm sure it won't be that bad, not as nice as one of those quad rails you mentioned but as long as it does it's job then that's ok with me. If the riser works, and the iron sights can be seen thru it as back up, then I shouldn't need to do any "work arounds" either. I plan on keeping this rifle very simple, iron sights for back up, Trophy scope, a nice magpul sling, maybe a bipod and then just mags and ammo

Again thank you for your suggestions, much appreciated.

[mythaeus]

While I am sure the products you mentioned are great, and I appreciate your help, these are WAY too much money IMO. I would not be willing to dish out $200 for a quad rail....even if I was working, which I am not.

If I can simply add a 6" riser to the front half of the flat-top and it over hangs a little that's perfectly fine with me, and as long as it gives me enough room for a flip-up rear sight which it would.

Also IMO it would still function the same just the scope would be a bit higher and as far as looks, well, I'm sure it won't be that bad, not as nice as one of those quad rails you mentioned but as long as it does it's job then that's ok with me. If the riser works, and the iron sights can be seen thru it as back up, then I shouldn't need to do any "work arounds" either. I plan on keeping this rifle very simple, iron sights for back up, Trophy scope, a nice magpul sling, maybe a bipod and then just mags and ammo

Again thank you for your suggestions, much appreciated.

Understood. The suggestions were without a preface to your willingness or ability to spend.

Just to clarify, those are retail prices. A new MI SS series is $135 from Midway, and I have seen the Troy goes for $150. I just got an MCF-R used for $120.

If you post some pictures, maybe we can make some additional suggestions.

Al

[PhilaShooter]

Understood. The suggestions were without a preface to your willingness or ability to spend.

Just to clarify, those are retail prices. A new MI SS series is $135 from Midway, and I have seen the Troy goes for $150. I just got an MCF-R used for $120.

If you post some pictures, maybe we can make some additional suggestions.

Al

That's a good point too, about retail prices. Maybe I'll post a thread in the Classifieds and see if anyone has one they are looking to sell. I know I am looking for an AK right now and I have had a lot of responses so who knows...maybe I'll get lucky.

Below is a picture of my Stag Arms AR, the one in question, any and all opinions welcome as always.

[Watchman]

That's a good point too, about retail prices. Maybe I'll post a thread in the Classifieds and see if anyone has one they are looking to sell. I know I am looking for an AK right now and I have had a lot of responses so who knows...maybe I'll get lucky.

Below is a picture of my Stag Arms AR, the one in question, any and all opinions welcome as always.

Nice Rifle

Anything that would help you push the scope more forward would also raise it up and you'll probably loose co-witness. You might get away with a lower 1/3 co-witness but you'll never know until you try something.

How about these? They both look like they'll mount forward enough to allow room for the buis. BTW, for the money, the Magpul buis is hard to beat.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=858580
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=314296

-edit-
As it stands, it does appear that a buis would probably tuck in under the scope on your rifle. That is the way I have mine setup. The way I see it, if the scope craps out, I can just take it off to use the back up sights.

[em2b96p]

I have a flat top upper with m4 barrel and ar front sight bought from Del-ton i believe.. It doesnt have a "F" it has a "diamond" shape followed by a 1 on the right side...... i have no zeroing problems with my matech BUIS

[PhilaShooter]

Nice Rifle

Anything that would help you push the scope more forward would also raise it up and you'll probably loose co-witness. You might get away with a lower 1/3 co-witness but you'll never know until you try something.

How about these? They both look like they'll mount forward enough to allow room for the buis. BTW, for the money, the Magpul buis is hard to beat.

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=858580
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=314296

-edit-
As it stands, it does appear that a buis would probably tuck in under the scope on your rifle. That is the way I have mine setup. The way I see it, if the scope craps out, I can just take it off to use the back up sights.

Thank you for your help and taking the time to find a product that would work for me, I really appreciate it.

I did some quick measuring to see how much more rail I would actually need to move the scope far enough up to be able to have a rear BUIS and be able to flip it up and use it without taking the scope off....unfortunatly I would need like an 8" riser and a 7" if I put the release latch of the Magpul under the scope.

Now if I did use the 7" riser I would also be making the rear sight sit up an extra 1/2" correct, so I would have to higher the front sight post 1/2" as well right ? My thinking is if I do this then that would also bring the front up enough to still co-witness with the scope.

Also if that will not work then I am thinking as you said, to just have the rear BUIS under the scope and since the scope has quick detach knobs I could have it off and the rear BUIS up in a matter of seconds.

Looking at what is more important IMO would be to keep the scope co-witnessing with the front sight, so if I did have to remove it when putting it back on it should still be lined up and I can make sure with the front sight, therefore not having to waste ammo sighting it back in. If it did loose zero then I could just adjust it to realign it with the front sight again.

I went to those 2 posts you suggested and I also found this:
http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct...tNumber=711752

this SHOULD be able to allow me to use the magpul BUIS without taking the scope off....would be very close. I assume they are still a good product just a diffrent manufacturer ?

[Watchman]

You would want to mount the rear backup sight directly on to the flattop receiver, It won't work otherwise. Then mount the extension forward of the backup sight. The Yankee Hill Machine extensions I found looks like they don't require too much picatinny real estate from the flattop and appear to be able to mount forward of the backup sight with no problems. Then put the scope on that. I do doubt you would be able to co-witness the back up sights though.

The scope you have now is a red-dot?
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-1x32-Trophy...ght-P6913.aspx

You have the scope, you're going to pick up a buis, say ~$100 (Magul rear buis is around $50-60). The GG&G rail you looked at is $73. The YHM's I looked at are ~$43.

If I'm not mistaken, you are wanting to co-witness with the red dot so that if needed, you can simply pop up the rear buis and keep on truckin (sight though the red-dot glass). With the scope you have, I don't think that is going to happen. The riser extensions will give you more picatinny length to mount the scope forward of the rear buis but it also raises the height of the scope, remember, you cannot also raise the height of the rear sight becuase you cannot also raise the height of the front sight. I do not know if the Bushnell will work with a lower 1/3 co-witness setup.

If you are wanting to co-witness with the back up sights I can only see two options that you won't regret.

1. Sell the Bushnell and get a compact red-dot, the Vortex SPARC is really nice for the money.

2. get a railed handguard. The problem here is more money and unless you really want to learn how AR rifles are put together, can be a real pain in the ass to install. There is only one railed handguard I know of that is both easy to install and also quality, the Daniel Defense Omega, and it isn't cheap.

Just my opinion, I'd pick up a buis and see if it tucks in under the scope and call it a day. Remove the scope if needed. That is how my carbine is setup.

Aren't these things fun??

[PhilaShooter]

You would want to mount the rear backup sight directly on to the flattop receiver, It won't work otherwise. Then mount the extension forward of the backup sight. The Yankee Hill Machine extensions I found looks like they don't require too much picatinny real estate from the flattop and appear to be able to mount forward of the backup sight with no problems. Then put the scope on that. I do doubt you would be able to co-witness the back up sights though.

The scope you have now is a red-dot?
http://swfa.com/Bushnell-1x32-Trophy...ght-P6913.aspx

You have the scope, you're going to pick up a buis, say ~$100 (Magul rear buis is around $50-60). The GG&G rail you looked at is $73. The YHM's I looked at are ~$43.

If I'm not mistaken, you are wanting to co-witness with the red dot so that if needed, you can simply pop up the rear buis and keep on truckin (sight though the red-dot glass). With the scope you have, I don't think that is going to happen. The riser extensions will give you more picatinny length to mount the scope forward of the rear buis but it also raises the height of the scope, remember, you cannot also raise the height of the rear sight becuase you cannot also raise the height of the front sight. I do not know if the Bushnell will work with a lower 1/3 co-witness setup.

If you are wanting to co-witness with the back up sights I can only see two options that you won't regret.

1. Sell the Bushnell and get a compact red-dot, the Vortex SPARC is really nice for the money.

2. get a railed handguard. The problem here is more money and unless you really want to learn how AR rifles are put together, can be a real pain in the ass to install. There is only one railed handguard I know of that is both easy to install and also quality, the Daniel Defense Omega, and it isn't cheap.

Just my opinion, I'd pick up a buis and see if it tucks in under the scope and call it a day. Remove the scope if needed. That is how my carbine is setup.

Aren't these things fun??

Ok I understand better now. I was thinking I could get the riser and mount the scope AND buis on it, then raise the front sight to have them all meet up. I see what your saying and how that will not work.

Yes that is the exact scope I have, it's a red/green T dot, which I must say I did not know upon ordering it that it was a T dot but I like it a lot. It's very easy to see and get on target, especially with having it co-witness with the front sight.

I think your opinion is the best way for me to go. I especially like the Magpul buis, that would be the one I would get also. Aside from buying a Daniel Defense quad rail which as you said, is big bucks or anything like that.

I do not mind getting to know how the AR is put together and taken apart, completly I mean not just for normal cleaning. The rifle came with some kind of plastic quad rail which I did remove and put the original handguards back on, didn't seem to hard.

I must say though, this being my first AR, I used to agree with a lot of others in the aspect that an AK is so much better because it's more reliable ect...Now it's known the AR is more accurate also, which does count. In actually handling each, IMO, if I was in a SHTF situation I would trust both with my life hands down. The fact that people say the AK is more reliable, in part because the AR gets dirty fast and starts to malfunction, I can see that being true. However that being said I can also see that in a battlefield situation by pushing the rear pin that holds the back of the reciever and upper together, you can easily clean the inside of the AR, fast and effectivly, including the barrel. Then pushing them back together and pushing the pin back in place, your full mag still in the rifle all you have to do is pull the charging handle back and your ready to go. Assuming one has pratice that could be done very fast and effectivly.

With the AK you have to pop the dust cover off and remove the recoil spring, then clean the inside, granted this will take longer you also don't have to clean the AK as much, but if all you have to do to the AR is give it a good cleaning once a day, like I said above, and that keeps it's reliability much more eficent, I am impressed with the AR. It's ease of handling, cleaning, shooting, ect... are just as good IMHO as an AK. Granted it's more accurate also the AK is more rugged but both IMO are great rifles and like every great rifle, maintained properly they will last a long time and run smoothly.

I am now interested in building an AR-10 from scratch. I would love to have one and buying one already built, such as a DPMS LR308 is just too much money for me to shell out all at once, so my best option is to just build it as I get the extra cash.

Again thank you for your help I am going to take you up on your suggestion and buy a Magpul rear buis and have it under my scope...now I just have to hope it sits low enough to fit !