357 sig bullet seating problems

[max384]

Tonight I finally got around to setting up 357 sig on the Dillon. I've reloaded 357 sig before, but only on my turret press. The problem is that my OAL varies a lot! I'm loading 115 gr plated HPs over 9.6 gr blue dot. My target OAL (and book value max OAL) is 1.140." About 1 out of every 5 is between 1.110" and 1.120." I'm using mixed brass, but the short ones are random (not a specific manufacturer's brass) and I don't have any that are between the normal and short ones (in other words, I have two distinct groups: those that are about 1.140" and those that are between 1.110" and 1.120"). Seating has been a pain because anytime the bullets are a little cockeyed when they go into the seating die, they come out mangled. I have to be very careful to set them into the case very straight. I never had this problem on the turret. I took out the seating die and checked it out, and put it back together with the same results.

What is causing the short rounds?

Would you pull the short OAL ones or do you think they're okay?

I'm getting frustrated and my head's cloudy because of it! I decided to stop for the night and start again tomorrow with a fresh mind and hopefully some advice from the experts here at PAFOA.

EDIT: I'm using Lee steel dies on a Dillon XL650

[Flash]

Tonight I finally got around to setting up 357 sig on the Dillon. I've reloaded 357 sig before, but only on my turret press. The problem is that my OAL varies a lot! I'm loading 115 gr plated HPs over 9.6 gr blue dot. My target OAL (and book value max OAL) is 1.140." About 1 out of every 5 is between 1.110" and 1.120." I'm using mixed brass, but the short ones are random (not a specific manufacturer's brass) and I don't have any that are between the normal and short ones (in other words, I have two distinct groups: those that are about 1.140" and those that are between 1.110" and 1.120"). Seating has been a pain because anytime the bullets are a little cockeyed when they go into the seating die, they come out mangled. I have to be very careful to set them into the case very straight. I never had this problem on the turret. I took out the seating die and checked it out, and put it back together with the same results.

What is causing the short rounds?

Would you pull the short OAL ones or do you think they're okay?

I'm getting frustrated and my head's cloudy because of it! I decided to stop for the night and start again tomorrow with a fresh mind and hopefully some advice from the experts here at PAFOA.

EDIT: I'm using Lee steel dies on a Dillon XL650

Interesting problem you have here.

Observation: You are only getting bullets seated DEEPER than your target-dimnension, not higher. That leads me to guess that you are getting occasional crud between the seating die stem and the bullet. I guess that, because the dimensions are always, by your observation twenty to thirty thousandths deeper. My guess is a granule of powder or some dirt from the bullet. Maybe only a flake of cardboard from the box they came in. A few thousandths on the bullet at the ogive will translate to a longer distance longitudinally.

My other thought would be inconsistencies in bullet shape at the ogive and a seating stem which does not exactly match that profile. Maybe try a different seating stem with a different profile (wider) cup. Or "deburr" the rim of the existing punch "cup" agressively.

As for thirty thousandths, I'd shoot them without worrying. As you are loading Blue Dot, that is a fairly bulky powder, and therefore not too subject to minor variations in case volume. Thirty thousandths is only the thickness of nine sheets of typing paper.



That's an interesting issue. Keep us posted as to the solution you work out.

Flash

[max384]

Interesting problem you have here.

Observation: You are only getting bullets seated DEEPER than your target-dimnension, not higher. That leads me to guess that you are getting occasional crud between the seating die stem and the bullet. I guess that, because the dimensions are always, by your observation twenty to thirty thousandths deeper. My guess is a granule of powder or some dirt from the bullet. Maybe only a flake of cardboard from the box they came in. A few thousandths on the bullet at the ogive will translate to a longer distance longitudinally.

My other thought would be inconsistencies in bullet shape at the ogive and a seating stem which does not exactly match that profile. Maybe try a different seating stem with a different profile (wider) cup. Or "deburr" the rim of the existing punch "cup" agressively.

As for thirty thousandths, I'd shoot them without worrying. As you are loading Blue Dot, that is a fairly bulky powder, and therefore not too subject to minor variations in case volume. Thirty thousandths is only the thickness of nine sheets of typing paper.



That's an interesting issue. Keep us posted as to the solution you work out.

Flash

Well, I took it apart again and cleaned the seating cup out very well. I also ensured the bullets weren't full of crud or anything that would get between the bullets and the seating stem. I ruled out that one because I continued having the same problems.

I can't switch out with a wider seating cup because there is only enough room in the die for a .355" seating cup. So, instead I took one from my .380 seating die because it was much flatter. This produced dismal results. I had to discard half of them because they went in crooked and the OALs were all over the place.

I switched back to the original seating stem. After very carefully and slowly doing several more, I think this is just an inherent problem with this caliber. I never had this problem when using my turret press, but I didn't load very many rounds with it and I was going at a much slower pace. I think the problem lies in it being a bottleneck cartridge with a very short neck. If a bullet goes in a bit crooked, it can't straighten itself as well because it runs out of wall to push against.

I have been very slowly setting bullets before seating, making sure they are very straight and this has alleviated the problem. I have come to the conclusion that I won't be able to load this round quickly if I want them done right.

[Flash]

Well, I took it apart again and cleaned the seating cup out very well. I also ensured the bullets weren't full of crud or anything that would get between the bullets and the seating stem. I ruled out that one because I continued having the same problems.

I can't switch out with a wider seating cup because there is only enough room in the die for a .355" seating cup. So, instead I took one from my .380 seating die because it was much flatter. This produced dismal results. I had to discard half of them because they went in crooked and the OALs were all over the place.

I switched back to the original seating stem. After very carefully and slowly doing several more, I think this is just an inherent problem with this caliber. I never had this problem when using my turret press, but I didn't load very many rounds with it and I was going at a much slower pace. I think the problem lies in it being a bottleneck cartridge with a very short neck. If a bullet goes in a bit crooked, it can't straighten itself as well because it runs out of wall to push against.

I have been very slowly setting bullets before seating, making sure they are very straight and this has alleviated the problem. I have come to the conclusion that I won't be able to load this round quickly if I want them done right.

Looking at a few fired 357SIG cases here. "Short neck" is a pretty accurate description, and it seems that your solution might just be the only solution.

Thanks for the feedback.

Flash

[max384]

Looking at a few fired 357SIG cases here. "Short neck" is a pretty accurate description, and it seems that your solution might just be the only solution.

Thanks for the feedback.

Flash

No. Thank you for the feedback.

[notenoughguns]

I've run into the same problem with seating depth and found it to be in the ogive of the bullet especially if your using a round nose bulk plated bullet .
The 357 sig is designed to shoot a flat nose 125 grain bullet .355 grain bullet made specifically for that round .I've loaded thousands of rounds for that calibre and encountered your same problem when using plated bullets .
Check the diameter of the bullet !

[PAfarmboy]

Dan,
So what bullets do you use? I have a friend who gave up on loading 357 Sig on his Dillon. He is selling me his dies CHEAP. I am gonna give it a go. Seems to be the one caliber that has more problems associated with it than any other.

I got a couple thousand once fired cases real cheap, so i figured why not give it a go.

What is ur "pet load"? powder choice?

Thanks for any info

[smitty56]

Did you see this link? I am about to lose interest in reloading this round.
Smitty
http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/w...ety.reload.htm

[notenoughguns]

Dan,
So what bullets do you use? I have a friend who gave up on loading 357 Sig on his Dillon. He is selling me his dies CHEAP. I am gonna give it a go. Seems to be the one caliber that has more problems associated with it than any other.

I got a couple thousand once fired cases real cheap, so i figured why not give it a go.

What is ur "pet load"? powder choice?

Thanks for any info

Speer 125 gr gold dot ( which are specifically designed for the 357 sig ) are my choice for reliable reloading of this cartridge along with AA #9 powder . You want a powder that will give you a compressed charge when loaded to counter bullet set back . Do invest in a factory crimp die .

Good luck .

[max384]

I've run into the same problem with seating depth and found it to be in the ogive of the bullet especially if your using a round nose bulk plated bullet .
The 357 sig is designed to shoot a flat nose 125 grain bullet .355 grain bullet made specifically for that round .I've loaded thousands of rounds for that calibre and encountered your same problem when using plated bullets .
Check the diameter of the bullet !

I don't have a bullet comparator for measuring the ogive. The diameter of the bullet is .355." It is a hollowpoint.

Did you see this link? I am about to lose interest in reloading this round.
Smitty
http://www.handguninfo.com/Archive/w...ety.reload.htm

I read through a lot of this. Thanks for posting it. This round is a pain I'm finding out. Funny that I had no trouble with it until I started using it on the Dillon... of course I didn't load too awful many before this.



I got a chance to shoot some of the rounds yesterday and they shot well, even the short ones. My biggest gripe now is the amount of bullets I've mangled trying to get them seated.

I think I may try to use a .40 seating die next time and see how that works. I've noticed that the biggest problem seating is that the seating plug is much smaller in diameter than the opening of the die. This leave extra room that if the bullet catches, will go in crooked and end up with a mangled bullet. The .40 seating die's plug fills the entire space, so I'm hoping this may alleviate some problems. What do you guys think?