legally killing a burglar

[XACEX]

section of PA UFA that relates to property defense:

*(4)(i) The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if:

(A) there has been an entry into the actor’s dwelling;

(B) the actor neither believes nor has reason to believe that the entry is lawful; and

(C) the actor neither believes nor has reason to believe that force less than deadly force would be adequate to terminate the entry.

(ii) If the conditions of justification provided in sub*paragraph (i) have not been met, the use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that:

(A) the person against whom the force is used is attempting to dispossess him of his dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession; or

(B) such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.




my question is, based on this section of the UFA, is it legal to kill someone that has just broken into your home? By definition, burglary is an unlawful entry into a residence with intent to commit a crime, and is a felonly. SO, according the the UFA section i bolded, anyone who has broken into your home is "killable" because they are committing a felony burglary - by breaking into your home. Now, the perp does have to have the intent to commit a crime in the residence for it to count as burglary, however this crime can be ANYTHING, as it is not defined - including criminal tresspass (remaining unlawfully in a residence).

SO, to summarize, anyone that breaks into your home while you are there and remains there for any amount of time is commiting the crime of criminal tresspass; because they broke into your home with the intent to commit that crime, they are committing felonly burglary; because they have broken into your home and are committing a felony, you can kill them. In other words, you can legally kill anyone that breaks into your home.

Is this accurate, or is there a flaw in my logic? (the only part im not sure about is the "crime" that the person who breaks into your home has to be intending to commit for it to count as felony burglary)


thanks for the help

[LorDiego01]

look son,

you "kill" somebody, you go to jail. Hopefully for life. If I'm a jury on a "killing" case, where somebody broke into your house and you "killed" them, then I'm presented this post... oh boy.. you are not going to like it.

What you want to do, is defend yourself against an aggressor. You do not "kill", you enact deadly force in self defense until a threat is stopped. A threat that makes you fear for you life, or the life of those around you.

While "breaking" into your home is certainly a violation of the law, your post makes it look like are ready to unload entire mags an any noise that goes bump in the night. Or offing someone who just stepped on your front lawn.

Just sayin'...

[tlgpa]

or is there a flaw in my logic?

Yes. Every word or form of work that includes the letters k-i-l-l

Suppose someone just broke into your house and is standing by the front door when you catch them (holding your DVD player). He turns to leave and you shoot him 5 times in the back, KILLing him. Guess where you're going to go on vacation?

The use of deadly force, and intent to kill someone are not the same thing. As LorDiego01 said, your post sure sounds like you have intent. And you posted this on a public forum.

[snakeman21]

I think this thread will get interesting...

[CHEMICAL]

I agree with the others. just like legal documents, it's all in the wording.

It's never legal to "kill" anyone. you may defend yourself against an attack, and if your attacker perishes in the midst of you defending yourself, well then thats a risk he took by attacking you.

But to "kill" someone is illegal.

[kevindsingleton]

section of PA UFA that relates to property defense:

*(4)(i) The use of deadly force is justifiable under this section if:

(A) there has been an entry into the actor’s dwelling;

(B) the actor neither believes nor has reason to believe that the entry is lawful; and

(C) the actor neither believes nor has reason to believe that force less than deadly force would be adequate to terminate the entry.

(ii) If the conditions of justification provided in sub*paragraph (i) have not been met, the use of deadly force is not justifiable under this section unless the actor believes that:

(A) the person against whom the force is used is attempting to dispossess him of his dwelling otherwise than under a claim of right to its possession; or

(B) such force is necessary to prevent the commission of a felony in the dwelling.




my question is, based on this section of the UFA, is it legal to kill someone that has just broken into your home? By definition, burglary is an unlawful entry into a residence with intent to commit a crime, and is a felonly. SO, according the the UFA section i bolded, anyone who has broken into your home is "killable" because they are committing a felony burglary - by breaking into your home. Now, the perp does have to have the intent to commit a crime in the residence for it to count as burglary, however this crime can be ANYTHING, as it is not defined - including criminal tresspass (remaining unlawfully in a residence).

SO, to summarize, anyone that breaks into your home while you are there and remains there for any amount of time is commiting the crime of criminal tresspass; because they broke into your home with the intent to commit that crime, they are committing felonly burglary; because they have broken into your home and are committing a felony, you can kill them. In other words, you can legally kill anyone that breaks into your home.

Is this accurate, or is there a flaw in my logic? (the only part im not sure about is the "crime" that the person who breaks into your home has to be intending to commit for it to count as felony burglary)


thanks for the help

Only one way to find out, for sure!

[XACEX]

excuse me symantic police, "kill" is easier to type than "use deadly force against" and its the same damn thing, having nothing to do with intent.

and for christ's sake, im posting a hypothetical situation about legality that has nothing to do with me or my home at all, take your tin foil hats off.


now im asking about legality here because IANAL, and would like intelligent responses to the purpose of the thread.


thanks


ETA: this is about "killing" in defense of property, NOT in self defense

[CHEMICAL]

excuse me symantic police, "kill" is easier to type than "use deadly force against" and its the same damn thing, having nothing to do with intent.

and for christ's sake, im posting a hypothetical situation about legality that has nothing to do with me or my home at all, take your tin foil hats off.


now im asking about legality here because IANAL, and would like intelligent responses to the purpose of the thread.


thanks


ETA: this is about "killing" in defense of property, NOT in self defense

wording has everything to do with legality first of all, and second of all in Pa you cant legally "kill" in defense of property unless you feel your life is in immediate danger.

[XACEX]

1. get over the wording thing. you know what i mean.

2. the whole point of this thread is to question what you just said

[tlgpa]

now im asking about legality here because IANAL,

And you got answers about the legality. Like it or not, a DA or attorney WILL use your statements against you. And they LOVE semantics.
Even though we're not playing semantics here. Kill ≠ use of deadly force.

and would like intelligent responses to the purpose of the thread.

You got plenty of very intelligent responses.

1. get over the wording thing. you know what i mean.

How about you get over the wording thing and just use correct wording. It's really not that hard. Wording matters if you're talking about LEGALITY.