True Cost of Training?

[jcabin]

I've been discussing this with one of my friends/fellow PAFOAn. He's in for taking some professional training and making a weekend out of it. If we have to drive out towards pittsburgh or down towards philly, it's not such a big deal when you have a friend to go with and can split the cost of housing, gasoline, take some of the driving time off your hands, and what not.

It helps keep a 400$ course pretty close to $400. When you don't have to spend an additional $300 between gas and housing but can split it.

Of course, you need to have certain things already before you can even attend the class.

The essentials being: gun, holster(it seems many classes have restrictions or their own idea on what kind of holster is ideal for SD, or just their course/belt, eye/ear protection, ammunition, multiple magazines(anywhere from 3-6 is a normal requirement), mag holster and/or dump pouch.

Other essential costs: Gasoline, housing, food. This is going to cost a significant amount of money once you already have all the essentials and the course paid for. A quick estimate would let me range this cost anywhere between $$150-$400 on top of everything else. Depending on how far you have to drive and if there are any hotel/motels in the area and their prices.

Non-essentials: tacticool clothing. If you can find it cheap, why not? Chances are, with the current state of things, you won't be fighting people with your 5.11 pants on anyway(if you have to do some fighting). It's still great to have for training purposes.

Knee and elbow pads. Though, I suppose showing up with a set of childrens rollerblading pads might give a few laughs. Really though, this will probably make your training experience a little more pleasurable and save injury where it's not needed.

Sturdy boots, but this is something you should probably have in general, before going to training.

[Shawn.L]

In March I went down to NC to take a Ken Hackathorn "Advanced Pistol" course.

I was able to carpool down with another guy.

I estimate my travel expenses where near $300 for the weekend including food and lodging. Hotels can be had under $70/night. Pack snacks/water and spend maybe $20-30 day on food and incedentals. Maybe a bit more if you want to dine out with guys from the class. But, its hard for me to really count eating as an expense.... its not like I wouldnt be eating anyway.

So, yes, the big expense is really lodging and gas. If you and a buddy can split a room with a double bed and gas that greatly reduces the costs.

I am of the opinion that if your regualar gear isnt up to the task of taking a course you should either revaluate your gear choices or recheck the class. And Im lounging around the house in a pair of 5.11's right now. They make a damn fine pantaloon

[Broncitis]

cargo/tactical pants are nice simply becuase you will be carrying lots of mags to the line, and they give you extra places to stow fresh and empty mags.

2-3 mags pouches on the belt are a good idea IMO. As for a holster, for most training classes a good quality OWB would be prefered IMO. If you want a retention holster, I'd go with a Serpa style over a thumb brake type simply because you will be drawing and holstering A LOT.

However, if you carry with a thumb brake type regularly, that may be these best for you to train with even if it is an added PITA.

Many courses do not require elbow (not shoulder ) or knee pads. If yours does, take some. I would not worry about buying any fancy ones if I already had something that was decent (and not pink or purple ). The course I took did not. Not sure about the ones I plan to take this summer/fall. Tactical boots are not needed, just some regular decent closed footware. Most do wear some type of hiking, work, or tactial boot that I saw. I had some nice black Danner semi-tacticool looking boots that I wear when I ride my motorcyle, so I used those. If you do go with the tactical pants, a pair of Chuck-D's or Vans would look a bit funny though IMO!

Of course there are travel costs if you can not find one you can commute to from home. Just eat and stay at the most ecomical places you can, and yes, a side kick will shave 50% off the hotel which is what I always try to do when I go to various events with friends.

A friend invited me (at 30 some other friends) to a free 4 day course out at Front Sight last year. While the course was free, I still had $1500+ in travel expenses, food, some other entertainment, etc. My brother and a small group of us made it a week long vacation and also went to the SEMA show(all things automotive aftermarket) that was going on just prior to our course to better justify the expense and have some more fun.

However, you forgot the biggest expense, AMMO. Most courses require factory loaded ammo and check it when you arrive. Round count of most courses I have looked at are 500-2000. I will need 2600 rounds for the two courses I am planning this year. So depending on what caliber you shoot and where you buy it, this could cost between $575 and $1100+ in itself.

[Shawn.L]

yes, I didnt mention the knee pads. The inexpensive elastic skateboard style ones will work fine. Take them if the course asks for it. The last thing you want to do is take a knee HARD on gravel range conditions over and over again.

I also put an extra pouch on my belt to carry extra mags to the line and load my normal carry ones from this back pair.

of course the ammo can be as much as tutition. But to keep things in perspective, those rounds will be fired while learning and as such are much more valuable then those same rounds being shot without instruction either being pointless (except maybe fun) and possibly having a negative effect on your skills.

The real "value" of the training is not really realized until it is experianced, and it is well worth the costs.

I would have wasted a whole lot less money and time on guns and ammo had I first invested in training.

Live and learn.

[Guns4Fun]

I like to think of it as a mini vacation for me.

How much money do you spend when you go on vacation?

Just think how much a week down in Disney World costs for a family of 4.

Or a cruise to somewhere. Or whatever / wherever you like to go.

In the scheme of things, it's a small price to pay considering what you'll get out of it.

But, you are right. When you can share the "other expenses", it does make it less expensive.

Edit - i cant wait until my son is 18 so he can train also. Then it will be a real family vacation. Only 2 more years to go.

[Broncitis]

Edit - i cant wait until my son is 18 so he can train also. Then it will be a real family vacation. Only 2 more years to go.

I'm not sure what the age requirements are for most courses, but you can take him to Front Sight now if you wanted to. We had a few father/son pairs in our class where the sons were 14-17.

We also had several friends bring their younger chldern and wives. The wives were in our class and the younger children were in a special kids class. There were at least 40-50 in those classes. They had 4 FULL days of very well organized and supervised activities. All the kids had permenant grins on their faces! They have ROPES courses and climbing, games in the network of training tunnels, shoot archery, .22 rifles and even full auto Uzi's! My buddies daughters like that the most! The kids actully seemed to have even more fun that we did!

[Orive 8]

I agree with the vacation idea greatly. For a period of time between 1990 and 2000, the "vacations" that I took with my wife primarily consisted of different training classes.

Not only did we enjoy the training, but we had a chance to travel to different parts of the country doing what we both really like. We also got to spend time with people of a like mind.

I just went to a 2 day class at TDI in Ohio with a friend and I pointed this out to him, I saw the light bulb go on when he realized this also.

Now we are both planning to attend a defensive pistol class with Scott Reitz from I.T.T.S. in New Hampshire later this fall.

My wife and I are already planning on going to TDI next year so that she can take the Advanced Concealed Carry Class with me (yes, I'm going to re-take it, it was a good class with a really good instructor, and I'll have a great time taking it with her). I'm also going to try to get 3-4 friends to go to the class with us, it will make it a hoot!

The cost of training - to me priceless.

[Yoder]

One thing to think about is how much money this could save you. You can learn so much in a really short period of time and save thousands of rounds. It could take you a few years to figure out what these guys can show you in a few days.

I'm glad you guys posted about the factory ammo. I never thought of that. That totally sucks and will double the cost of ammo.

Broncitis, what did you think of Front Sight? The place looks awesome I was wondering what you thought of the training. It reminds me of Disney for adults with guns. I only ever met one person who went there and he wasn't much of a shooter so it was hard to tell how good the training was.

[Shawn.L]

Ive never perssonally been to FS.

I dont know anyone I respect that has a favorable view of that place or the man that runs it.

TTFWIW

[Orive 8]

Back in the mid to late 90s, I won a Training Certificate for a Basic Pistol Class at Front Sight. I called down their after faxing them my training resume and asked if I could exchange the certificate for their intermediate class.

They told me no, that the certificate was only good for the Basic Pistol Class; I told them thank you and ended my conversation with them. I then gave the certificate to a lady that worked as a Range Safety Officer for my wife when she was teaching her defensive pistol classes at a range in WA.

The lady and her husband used the certificate for two 2-Day Basic Pistol Classes (she could have used it just for herself for a 4-Day Basic Pistol class also).

She informed us that the class was good and the instructors were all professional, knowledgeable, and very helpful. They both liked the experience.

Lots of stuff on the internet about Front Sight; some good and some bad, do your research, keep asking around on different forums, hopefully you’ll get some replies from some that have attended training there.

Good luck with your research and your choice.