Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Saw something that moved me today

    Ok, it's been a while since I posted anything but I am looking for some HUMBLE opinions.
    I had the wife and my son with me today in the car, headed to Dunkin' Donuts on rt 30 in North huntingdon. We were headed westbound when I pulled into the center turn lane to make my left into the gas station parking lot next to Dunkin'. There is more room there than Dunkin' s lot. I was waiting for traffic to clear when two pit bulls darted from the lot out into traffic. The one got hit by an SUV but not run over. The other was just outside the impact zone by inches. The one that did get hit reacted by attacking the front ground effect plastic on the SUV. it managed to pull free and both continued to try to cross but a guy that had crossed on foot behind my car helped the dog owner get ahold of the leashes on both. ( a co-worker of mine just happened to be at Dunkin and saw the part I missed - the lady opened her car door and the dogs bolted with leashes attached).
    My question is this.. I know how dogs can react to pain. If one or both had attacked the guy that was behind my car ( he was prob 50 feet behind it) and I had been carrying, would I have had reason to draw and put the dog(s) down to protect human life? Remember that we are talking about full grown pit bulls too. A powerful breed to begin with...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
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    Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
    (Allegheny County)
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    Would you have "reason to"? Maybe - depends on what's going on.
    Would it be legal to shoot them if they were attacking someone? I can't see why not.
    Would you be able to? That would be pretty tough unless it stopped long enough to get a clean shot.

    I should just unsubscribe now.
    I know we haven't had a good "shoot a dog" discussion in about a week now, but I'm not sure how much more I can take. LOL
    I called to check my ZIP CODE!....DY-NO-MITE!!!

  3. #3
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    Nov 2013
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    I am having a hard time following the plot of this story, but it sounds like two pit bulls ran out into traffic, one of them got hit by a moving vehicle, then attacked the moving vehicle, then some guy went out in traffic and pulled both pit bulls off the road by leash, along with their owner, and a lady was there, and opened a car door, and the dogs ran away from her, without anyone holding their leashes.

    My humble answer is I would never draw let alone fire on a road with moving vehicles and pedestrians chasing dogs. I may be reading your story wrong though.

    With an attacking dog that is actively mauling a person, you can get pretty close, like point-blank close. They are not like a criminal that will turn and shoot someone who approaches. They are attacking a specific person who they regard as a threat, and will not just turn and kill you if you get too close, like a thug might. They might not even be aware of your presence. Just get right up in the dog's business, and determine from there. You could try a "warning shot" into the ground right there. (assuming you are on regular ground, not a road or parking lot etc) Or you could always just try shouting authoritatively, pulling the dog off, yelling at it and chasing it away, or punching and kicking it in the gut/head, etc... You may get bitten by doing that, of course, but most dogs will respect an alpha human if you shout with authority, show absolutely no fear, and kick it hard in the gut or whatever. If that doesn't get the dog to stop, then you should be close enough to shoot it in a way that is safe and won't go through and hit the victim.

    And maybe getting bitten isn't so bad, depending on who you are. It would depend on the situation and who you are. if you are 5 feet tall and 100 lbs and 75 years old with a similar sized dog that is totally different than if you are 200 lbs and dealing with a 60lb dog and you are 25.

    What I am saying is a dog is not a criminal and does not behave like a criminal would, and a dog can be handled in a variety of ways that you would not want to risk with a person. The dog cannot shoot you from20 feet away, so you can afford to get closer to it, much closer, and if you have to shoot, you can shoot down on it by getting very close. This reduces risk of stray bullets. You wouldn't want to bother with a warning shot on a two legged threat, but a dog is different. You wouldn't (usually) want to get right up on a human threat and try dragging them away if they were armed, but a dog is different, and isn't really armed.

    In short, a dog threat is vastly different and you could handle it a lot of different ways, and shooting would be one possible and legally justifiable way. But not on a road full of cars.
    Sic semper tyrannis

  4. #4
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    Oct 2012
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    Sarver, Pennsylvania
    (Butler County)
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    If I had to get a powerful dog like that off of someone, i'd come right up and drill the dog like I had a nailgun away from the extremities of the human. When the dog turned on me I'd keep at it, as straight down as possible while leading the dog away from the person who was attacked first. My philosophy is that the dog would have to be carefully whittled down first and positioned for the kill shot to avoid putting people at too much risk. obviously both guns and Pit Bulls are lethal.

  5. #5
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    Feb 2013
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    Upper Darby, Pennsylvania
    (Delaware County)
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    Quote Originally Posted by FJW View Post
    If I had to get a powerful dog like that off of someone, i'd come right up and drill the dog like I had a nailgun away from the extremities of the human. When the dog turned on me I'd keep at it, as straight down as possible while leading the dog away from the person who was attacked first. My philosophy is that the dog would have to be carefully whittled down first and positioned for the kill shot to avoid putting people at too much risk. obviously both guns and Pit Bulls are lethal.
    If a dog *needs* to be put down in this kind of situation - and there are some that should - this sounds like the safest way. Dogs move blindingly fast. That said:

    I am a dog person, especially larger breeds. I think the pit has the best smile in the dog world. I would *prefer* to remove the attacking dog from the encounter non-lethally. There are methods you can Google for doing so. *I* have done so when my 66 pound German Shepherd-Burnese Mountain mix was assaulted by a 65 pound pit who was (in his mind) only protecting his boy. My dog was holding his own until I took control of the pit - and therefore the situation - then waited until police and animal control arrived. The pit was returned to his family with no large-bore holes, though he was missing a piece or two of his ears.

    Shooting a dog, like shooting a human, should be a last resort...

    My 2¢

  6. #6
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    (Westmoreland County)
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    To put this into perspective, I did not have my sidearm with me. I was just wondering how the scenario COULD have played out. The way the dog attacked the underside of the car, that could have been the guy standing in middle of the turn lane (not too smart a move to begin with, but people do that, there) getting all bit up.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    Dead Dog !

  8. #8
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    Feb 2013
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    Northampton, Pennsylvania
    (Northampton County)
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    I believe wut yer asking is this:

    (a) Legal to kill certain dogs.--Any person may kill any dog which he sees in the act of pursuing or wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing other dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings, whether or not such a dog bears the license tag required by the provisions of this act.  There shall be no liability on such persons in damages or otherwise for such killing.

    (b) Private nuisance.--Any dog that enters any field or enclosure where domestic animals are confined, provided that the enclosure is adequate for the purpose intended, shall constitute a private nuisance, and the owner or tenant of such field, or their agent or servant, may detain such dog and turn it over to the local police authority or State dog warden or employee of the department.  While so detained, the dog shall be treated in a humane manner.

    (c) Licensed dogs not included.--Licensed dogs, when accompanied by their owner or handler, shall not be included under the provisions of this section unless caught in the act of pursuing, wounding or killing any domestic animal, wounding or killing any dogs, cats or household pets, or pursuing, wounding or attacking human beings.

    (d) Repealed by 1990, May 31, P.L. 213, No. 46, effective in 60 days.








    http://codes.findlaw.com/pa/title-3-...3-459-501.html

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    I also wanted to add about how disturbed I am by the way the dumb -unt just opened the door and lets the dogs fly right out with no regard for human life. Of course, why not? How much will it cost her, a hundred bucks in fines, if some cop decides to drop his donut and write it up? Meanwhile, the DA will prosecute the guy that shoots the dogs, and he will lose everything he has.

    Of course, the -unt will claim that there was nothing she could do to stop the dogs; they just ran out on their own. Now, lets suppose we had some laws with some teeth, written by some lawmakers with some balls. Suppose a judge told a dog owner, "look, if your dog gets loose again, it won't be a hundred dollar fine, a cop will be over to cut your c--- and b---s off". That would be the end of that guy's excuses. Instead, the victim is the one that will lose.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Saw something that moved me today

    Quote Originally Posted by CB57 View Post
    I also wanted to add about how disturbed I am by the way the dumb -unt just opened the door and lets the dogs fly right out with no regard for human life. Of course, why not? How much will it cost her, a hundred bucks in fines, if some cop decides to drop his donut and write it up? Meanwhile, the DA will prosecute the guy that shoots the dogs, and he will lose everything he has.

    Of course, the -unt will claim that there was nothing she could do to stop the dogs; they just ran out on their own. Now, lets suppose we had some laws with some teeth, written by some lawmakers with some balls. Suppose a judge told a dog owner, "look, if your dog gets loose again, it won't be a hundred dollar fine, a cop will be over to cut your c--- and b---s off". That would be the end of that guy's excuses. Instead, the victim is the one that will lose.
    From my co-workers perspective, that is pretty much what happened. She opened the door and the dogs bolted. Maybe she thought that she had more control over the dogs than she actually had. I don't know. I do know that when my wife and I had dogs that when we took them in the car they had their leashes run through the fastened seat belt or if they were not secured while traveling, when we stopped we would secure the leashes in the seatbelt before we opened any door. An ounce of prevention is worth 5000 pounds of cure

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