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Thread: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
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January 1st, 2010, 08:51 PM #11
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
You don't need to shoot the exact same ammo for practice vs carry. I would recommend the same bullet weight so the recoil and POI is similar. At SD ranges the difference is not that much.
I believe shooting a couple hundred rounds of your carry ammo is important so you can compare performance. You should then find cheaper FMJ ammo that matches your SD ammo.
Using FMJ in your carry gun when you can have hollow points is not wise IMO. FMJ ammo in defense calibers will over penetrate damn near every time. This is why the 9mm as issued by the US Military doesn't have the "knock down power" needed. The 9mm NATO(FMJ) passes through the BG without doing as much tissue damage as JHP ammo. This is due to the smaller diameter and higher velocity when compared to the .45 ACP.
I would carry FMJ if I had no other choice or if I was carrying a small caliber like .25 or .32 ACP. I have heard of "experts" recommending carrying FMJ for anything with less power than 9x19.When you are called a racist, it just means you won an argument with an Obama supporter.
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January 1st, 2010, 10:05 PM #12Super Member
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Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
I think 20 gauge gets it done. Especially at 3AM. 12 has more kick, flash, and noise. None of which helps when woken up at 3AM.
I sometimes carry FMJ, along with HP in the same mag, especially outside the house. Sometimes you might need to penetrate, so the FMJ might be nice. Test your gun thoroughly with this though, as some can be tempermental about feeding varying sized bullets.
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January 1st, 2010, 10:13 PM #13
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
My bad, then. Hydra-Shok has the center post and an expanded profile that looks a bit like the traditional mushroom top we normally associate with old-school hollow points. It was and still is highly relevant as a self-defense round. Still carry them myself in the Sig.
Based on gel tests, I strongly disagree. HST is far superior. But, where it counts, in the real world, probably splitting hairs at this point.
Would that be "miniature pinwheels of death" technology? I mean, come on, that was a little silly. Of course the sharp edges help open permanent cavity and as far as I know this did indeed originate with Black Talon.
Ball has taken a lot more with a much longer history.
I've checked them out extensively. SXT opens less reliably and usually to a smaller diameter. Especially after passing through clothing.
Going to have to look into that one further, thanks.
You mean, it's about shot placement? In your original post you made it sound like it was a property of Black Talon and SXT ammo.These are the exalted gharāniq, whose intercession is hoped for. LMAO
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January 1st, 2010, 11:01 PM #14
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
As others have said, don't just load a magazine up with some good SD ammo and call it good to go. Run a bunch through your weapon and make sure it feeds reliably. If given the choice between FMJ and some top of the line HPs that didn't feed reliably, I'd choose FMJs every time.
I don't know about you, but I can't afford to exclusively shoot holes in paper with SD ammo. At the ranges of 99% of SD encounters, you're not gonna notice much of a difference in POI between a good SD ammo and cheap plinking ammo. If I was forced to only carry what I target practice with I would carry FMJs or I would carry SD ammo - just never practice. In an ideal situation, I would always shoot the same SD ammo I carry. But, in reality it is impractical to do so for most of us.
At the point that you are forced to pull the trigger on a bad guy inside your home in the middle of the night, you're gonna be plenty awake with your heart going 150 beats a minute... I doubt you'll notice much of the kick, flash, and noise. Ever notice how you barely hear the shot and your ears don't ring after taking down a nice buck like they would on the range without ear pro? It's the adrenaline... which is gonna be about 10x higher in a home defense situation like that. I'd take a 12 ga over a 20 any day.Last edited by max384; January 1st, 2010 at 11:03 PM.
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January 1st, 2010, 11:06 PM #15Grand Member
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January 1st, 2010, 11:45 PM #16
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
I roll my own.
But, to be fair, I do shoot a variety of ammo - all my own handloads. In my 'primary' carry gun (a .357 Magnum) I do target shoot different ammo from 'plinker' .38 Special 148gr. Lead Wadcutters up to 'full house', teeth rattlin' 158gr. Jacketed/XTP.
However, I'd say about 80% of what I shoot at the range is (or is at/near 'equivalent') point of aim, flash, recoil, et cetera, as the same stuff that I 'carry'.
These days, I'm carrying 145gr. Winchester SilverTip "heads" (bullets/projectiles) over 19.5 gr. of Winchester Lil'Gun powder lit with CCI 550 Small Pistol Magnum primers. These are far, *far* 'hotter' than "factory" SilverTips (which, as you may know, are relatively 'tame'). I haven't had them through a chronograph, but (out of my Smith) I estimate that they travel at roughly around 1675 feet per second (and that's a *very* conservative estimate).
I've shot thousands of these at targets and know how they shoot intimately. And they cost me roughly about $19.00 (+/- around .50 cents) per 50 cartridges. I'm about half way through my third box of 1000 145gr. ST "heads".
Using Rainier 148 gr. Plated WC with COL of 1.54 and a heavy crimp, but otherwise with the exact same recipe, costs me under $10.00 per box and hits the exact same place on the target as the STs (same muzzle flash, recoil, et cetera).
.Last edited by Bruce; January 1st, 2010 at 11:48 PM.
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January 2nd, 2010, 08:30 AM #17
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
I reload for my 9mm, .40 &.45 using Berrys bullets for practice ammo. I haven't had a failure yet & I wouldn't hesitate to use it for SD/HD if that's what happened to be in the mags when the need arises.
Except for when I go to the range, I keep the mag in the gun & a backup mag loaded with Winchester Ranger Ts & yes, I do practice with it from time to time so I know where they're going to shoot."It's hard to imagine a more stupid or more dangerous way of making decisions than by putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong."
Thomas Sowell
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January 2nd, 2010, 09:05 AM #18
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
kunsunoke, I see you have since changed what you said, I too was under the impression you thought they were the same, they are not.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BTT/is_168_28/ai_112685770/
As for so-called stopping power any caliber placed in the right spot will do damage. My personal opinion is practice and carry what you can afford to shoot the most, 45 is probably better than 9mm but what good is 45 if you can't afford to shoot it.
I do believe you're better off using HP bullets and I carry the 147 grain Federal HST in my 9mm pistols. I have shot 100 or more of this round thru my guns. However, I practice with a similar weight FMJ because I can afford to shoot more of it.
Below are a couple of photo's of Federal HST that were shot into ballistic gel, thru a pair of denim jeans, at a group shoot a couple years ago in Pittsburgh. The bullet on the left is a 45 acp, don't recall the weight and if I remember correctly it expanded to .60 caliber. The bullet on the right was 147 gr Federal HST I shot thru my Kahr CW9 into the gel, It expanded to .45 caliber and penetrated the gel 16 inches.
To the OP question, any round is better than no round. In most cases a HP is better than a FMJ.
Bill.
.Last edited by soberbyker; January 2nd, 2010 at 09:12 AM. Reason: added info
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January 2nd, 2010, 09:28 AM #19
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January 3rd, 2010, 12:37 PM #20
Re: Practice Ammo vs Defensive Ammo
Thanks soberbyker. Right now, I think my 9mm pistol is a good weapon for me, both in terms of what it is, and in dollars and cents to shoot it. Hollow points seems to make good sense. Not being in law enforcement or the military (or in any other capacity where I'm defending the lives of others), I haven't seen first-hand, the types of crazed individuals that might be able to "shake off" being shot by a 9mm. I hope I never do. But, as you said, a well placed shot, is probably going to at least give someone cause to pause. Your illustration certainly drives home the poing that a .45 is probably the weapon of choice for a defense situation, and maybe one day, I'll get one. Now, for me, it's all about getting proficient with what I have. Great info. Thanks again.
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