Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    I would like to build an AR-15 with a 12" bbl that I could attach a suppressor to, but I don't really feel like paying for two tax stamps (one for SBR one for suppressor). I've heard of people permanently attaching a suppressor to their barrel, but that solution is less than ideal IMHO. Recently while browsing the website for Tactical Solutions (www.tacticalsol.com), I saw their SB-X barrel for the Ruger 10-22, which is a 12" bbl with a permanent muzzle device that is large enough for a suppressor to fit inside, with standard threads to allow for the attachment of said suppressor. That particular shape (the hollow cylinder) is not actually all that difficult for a machinist to make from what I'm told, so I was thinking of doing something similar to a 12" AR-15 barrel. I was wondering if anyone here knows a good reason why that would be a bad idea.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    I dont know how the ATF's mind works but they might say its some type of suppressor any way. They would still probably have to put an approval on it, just like with some mfr flash suppressors like the Noveske kx3. Im not sure how that would work, I actually thought about doing something very similar to that before I filed my form 1 for my SBR so I wouldnt have to worry about it.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    In theory you should not have to do anything as long as the requirements are met that the length is at least 16 inches. A hollow tube alone would be on the dangerous side and it also wouldn't allow you suppressor to adequately cool. When I say dangerous side I simply refer to the BATFE thinking it may be a suppressor of some sort, I believe Tac-sol defeats this argument with the hole/shapes it has cut out of the "tube" that it has attached to make the length legal.

    A suggestion might be to figure out which suppressor you are going to use, possibly a QD (for ease of attaching and removing from within the tube). Then attach said QD mount to said 12" barrel, once applied then build the outer "tube" with cooling slots and weld it onto the barrel making sure to leave room to grasp the suppressor sufficiently to get it off of the mount.

    Food for thought on how I would go about building said device if I were to do a project like this. I am not a lawyer though and can offer nothing other than my interpretation of how the law would work in regards to this.
    Quote Originally Posted by GunLawyer001 View Post
    Buy a silencer.

    Tax: $200
    Cost of effective 5.56 suppressor: $500
    Letting the elderly neighbors sleep in until morning: Priceless.

    "132 and Bush I've got him at gun point, OK gun point, 132 and bush, cover is code 3"

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    Sounds like a lot of work to save $200 and end up with a goofy rifle. How much of that $200 do you think you'll end up saving?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    Quote Originally Posted by ithinkimamedic View Post
    ...
    A suggestion might be to figure out which suppressor you are going to use, possibly a QD (for ease of attaching and removing from within the tube). Then attach said QD mount to said 12" barrel, once applied then build the outer "tube" with cooling slots and weld it onto the barrel making sure to leave room to grasp the suppressor sufficiently to get it off of the mount.
    ...
    Good idea, I didn't think of that. I was just planning on mounting directly to the threads of the barrel, but sounds like it'd be a bit easier.

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    Sounds like a lot of work to save $200 and end up with a goofy rifle. How much of that $200 do you think you'll end up saving?
    I fully expect to pay MORE than the $200 it would take for the SBR tax stamp. Most of the issue is that I don't particularly feel like dealing with the BATFE more than I really have to. That, and curiosity. I'm very interested to see if this will actually fly. As for the goofy rifle part, maybe I'm just a goofy guy. ;-)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    Got it. I was just trying to look at the problem and some viable solutions and I had that epitome before I solved anything

    I'm assuming you are aware that there are comps designed to bring 14.5" barrels to 16" and are compatible with certain suppressors. But I guess that's a couple inches longer than you wanted.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    ...
    I'm assuming you are aware that there are comps designed to bring 14.5" barrels to 16" and are compatible with certain suppressors. But I guess that's a couple inches longer than you wanted.
    I didn't know that actually. Does the comp fit inside the suppressor like the suppressor would be attached to the 14.5" bbl, or does the suppressor fit on the end of the comp? If the second case, that would almost defeat the whole purpose of the exercise, as that would be just like attaching the suppressor to your 16" bbl.
    It also occurs to me that this idea may actually be useful in states that do not allow SBRs but do allow suppressors (Washington State IIRC?)

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    The comp fits inside the suppressor. I am not certain you get every last milimeter back, but basically your overall length with the suppressor is as if you were using a screw-on mount and a 14.5" barrel. At least, I think so. If this is not a deal killer, you are simply going to have to look at these products and decide for yourself if the overall length is acceptable vs. other products that screw on. Most manufacturers list not only dimensions but also length added to firearm overall.


    I have a suppressor/comp like that, but I use it on an MG anyway so I do use a short barrel, and not a pinned comp on a 14.5" barrel. But I did look into the overall length of the setup as a consideration, years ago, before I bought it. Don't remember what came out of that other than my money

    Gemtech suppressors and PWS comps (primaryweapons.com) are two examples of manufacturers with suppressors designed to work with comps and comps designed to work with suppressors. And, not suprisingly, also products that work with each other. But their products work with products from other manufacturers and there are also unrelated manufacturers that do similar stuff.

    I don't know for sure, but I think 14.5" with a pinned comp is going to be the minimum length based on what I have seen. If you don't want a tax stamp and must use suppressor over the comp. If that sounds reasonable, look into it.

    Keep in mind the downsides. You obviously narrow your options if you want over the comp suppressors. You may end up buying a suppressor that works with fewer guns, although most like these will work with most/all NATO style flash hiders/comps. Maybe a good idea to get one with more than one mounting option. NOTE: Not even sure multiple mounting hardware is allowed anymore, please check.

    Further, you now have a barrel with a pinned upper. That's all fine and good, but you are stuck with your comp and your can. If you decide to put a .22 kit in your rifle, but you have a heavy sealed 5.56 can that you don't want to gunk up because you can't clean it, you are probably going to find that you can't get a dedicated .22 rimfire can to mount to your comp. Also, if your comp gets chewed up, you can't simply screw it off and replace it. It's going to require more work than that.

    So, not only will your options be limitted when buying, but it will be somewhat more difficult to change your configuration in the future.
    Last edited by ungawa; December 12th, 2011 at 10:47 AM.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    Don't remember what came out of that other than my money
    hahahahahaha!

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    The comp fits inside the suppressor. I am not certain you get every last milimeter back, but basically your overall length with the suppressor is as if you were using a screw-on mount and a 14.5" barrel. At least, I think so. If this is not a deal killer, you are simply going to have to look at these products and decide for yourself if the overall length is acceptable vs. other products that screw on. Most manufacturers list not only dimensions but also length added to firearm overall.
    Very interesting. Thanks for the info. That's probably not for me, but I'll look into it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ungawa View Post
    Further, you now have a barrel with a pinned upper. That's all fine and good, but you are stuck with your comp and your can. If you decide to put a .22 kit in your rifle, but you have a heavy sealed 5.56 can that you don't want to gunk up because you can't clean it, you are probably going to find that you can't get a dedicated .22 rimfire can to mount to your comp. Also, if your comp gets chewed up, you can't simply screw it off and replace it. It's going to require more work than that.
    That's actually how I got the idea for this project, fun fact. I have a dedicated .22lr upper which is made by Tactical Solutions. I saw their product that does the whole over-sized shroud thing, just in a .22lr, when browsing their site looking for goodies for my upper.

    EDIT-
    Quick question for those in the know... Is possession of a short barrel enough for the BATFE to get you on constructive intent (or whatever it is that they call the intention for building an illegal SBR)? I am aware that possessing an assembled SBR upper without possessing a SBR'd lower is enough for them to get you, but is just the barrel the same way (even if I do not posses a stripped upper to install the barrel on)? Basically, I'm wondering if I'd even be able to build this proposed upper myself or if I'd have to get a smith to do it for me.
    Thanks!
    Last edited by NomadShadow; December 12th, 2011 at 08:34 PM.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Permanent muzzle device that allows for attachment of suppressor

    bump? anybody?

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