Why your license was never actually revoked - juries, process, and law of the land

[Walleye Hunter]

In spite of his ramblings, which I also found hard to follow, I do agree with his message, sort of. One one had he is right, on the other what is one going to do to change the way things are? i e when I first applied for my LTCF I got denied but didn't get the denial letter for about 60 days, too late to file the appeal with the Harrisburg. Sure, I know that It's deny or issue within 45 days but what am I going to do about it? I'm not going to spend a lot of money on it so I just waited the year and reapplied and got it straightened out. You have to choose your battles and I prefer to stick to those that are winnable and have sufficient value.

[DennisH82]

Damn, you go to sleep and miss all the fun, you can never be 100% sure but I agree it was our 3rd person talker back to do battle in is simulated world. I never understand why anyone invests the time and effort to set up accounts to just attract negative attention and yet another hammer strike. I would love (Not Me) to see those comments in the Chiclets section when you reach certain levels of red like you do in the green

[GunLawyer001]

It's rather difficult to get behind someone that wants to engage in a total scorched earth policy.

http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.ph...91#post2672891

At its core, it's a very Left-wing, snowflake concept, that "if I don't get my way, then I want to destroy everything". It's like a kid who's losing while playing some board game, who kicks the table over when nobody agrees to change the rules for him.

It's true that government isn't perfect, not even close. There's never been a perfect government, not in 50,000 years. But the government in power at any time is real, it exists and exerts power, it has jails and can send armed men to seize you and your property; you have to deal with it.

The PA courts have not been our friends, the Federal courts are somewhat more protective of our rights, but it ultimately comes down to politics. If 51% of the populace wants to ban guns or get rid of LTCF's, they'll elect politicians who think like that, and those politicians will appoint judges who think like that (unless the voters elect them directly), and then we get laws against guns and the courts support those laws. And the Constitution means whatever the courts tell us it says, in practice. Go find legal support for Roe v Wade in the US Constitution, it isn't there.

At no point do you get to just ignore the laws you don't like, and pretend that your LTCF hasn't "really" been revoked. That's like driving your car into the river because you had a solemn promise that someone would put a bridge there by yesterday. Your contractual rights (or your civil rights) don't trump physics and reality.

If you want to change the current political and legal climate, you have to craft a plan that seems likely to work. You have to change the hearts and minds of the voters, to get the politicians and laws and courts you want.

If you alienate even other gun owners, then your chances of swaying the soccer moms is zip. And nobody's going to the mattresses over pre-deprivation due process procedural safeguards.

[Walleye Hunter]

Damn, you go to sleep and miss all the fun, you can never be 100% sure but I agree it was our 3rd person talker back to do battle in is simulated world. I never understand why anyone invests the time and effort to set up accounts to just attract negative attention and yet another hammer strike. I would love (Not Me) to see those comments in the Chiclets section when you reach certain levels of red like you do in the green

You missed a lot of good deals on guns and ammo while you were out too.

[theshadow]

At no point do you get to just ignore the laws you don't like,

Sad thing is that MANY in government positions of authority, Like Philly City Council and Mayor, PA AG, Lancaster City Council and Mayor, etc when it comes to state/ federal laws they disagree with (Preemption, Sanctuary City/ County, 3d Printed guns (Free Speech, Equal protection)) and we "peons" don't get a say in the matter even though power comes from the governed. </rant>

[Krichardson]

Sad thing is that MANY in government positions of authority, Like Philly City Council and Mayor, PA AG, Lancaster City Council and Mayor, etc when it comes to state/ federal laws they disagree with (Preemption, Sanctuary City/ County, 3d Printed guns (Free Speech, Equal protection)) and we "peons" don't get a say in the matter even though power comes from the governed. </rant>

Yep,do as we say,not as we do....

[GunLawyer001]

Sad thing is that MANY in government positions of authority, Like Philly City Council and Mayor, PA AG, Lancaster City Council and Mayor, etc when it comes to state/ federal laws they disagree with (Preemption, Sanctuary City/ County, 3d Printed guns (Free Speech, Equal protection)) and we "peons" don't get a say in the matter even though power comes from the governed. </rant>

Power is real. If Philly drafts a law regulating guns, in violation of state law, none of the council members will go to jail. If you ignore a revocation of your LTCF, you may go to jail.

If some guy points a gun at you and demands your wallet, you can't just say "you're not allowed to do that!" He has the gun, he has the power, you have to deal with that in some manner.

Anybody who would tell you "your wallet is not really being stolen" is not helping the cause.

[soberbyker]

Hobson aka mdjschool? Is this you?

Based on the predictable answer which I expected, my money is on yes, this is Hobson.

My 1st, and 2nd thoughts as I started to read the thread. Slight change in style but not enough to hide, especially the smug follow or leave attitude.

.

[Carnes]

It's rather difficult to get behind someone that wants to engage in a total scorched earth policy.

http://forum.pafoa.org/showthread.ph...91#post2672891

"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.

"That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security."

Again, I am not advocating for Hobson, or whoever. That said, I have heard many posters here ask the question, "Is it time?" Or, say, "I'll meet you at the bridge."

When I hear a respected legal expert clearly explain that in our current reality, the US Constitution is worthless, and we are, in fact, ruled by the 51% mob... The COTUS was created, in part, for the express purpose of preventing the 51% from being able to take your guns or silence your speech.

But in "the real world" none of those Constitutional protections apply.

The last thing I want to do is engage in some scorched earth approach. I am fat, lazy, and have a reasonably comfortable lifestyle. Revolution at this point would be insanely risky, both for self and nation. It could make things worse. I'd most likely end up dead or in a concentration camp, and the 'winners' could easily establish a tyranny. That's just scratching the surface, because the Russians and Chineese, and Europe would all jump in the fray to serve their own interests. The next US revolution will undoubtedly be a global disaster.

So, yes, anyone that wants that is pretty insane.

But, allowing the most powerful nation in the history of ever to ignore the bounds of the COTUS is every bit as bad, or worse. The difference is I get to continue to be fat and lazy knowing that my grandchildren and their grandchildren will look back on this time and hate me for not fixing it. They will spit on my grave.

We're in a situation where it takes courage to even question things, or 'push the envelope' by OCing. WTF.

I don't know about you, but I want a better answer than, "don't make the powerful people mad."

[Carnes]

No comment? I can't condense the above into a tweet, but you are welcome to beat me up.