Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association
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  1. #1
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    Default Another 302 Question

    Ok I have searched and searched before I registered. I am posting on behalf of my son and looking for guidance. Back in 2014 my son was out 16 and out of control. My wife and I had him 302ed but with the understanding from the hospital that if he voluntarily 201ed himself when he got there the 302 would be null and void. So that's what he did because he hunted and didn't want to lose his gun privileges. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago and he tried to purchase a firearm and was denied. He did the PICs challenge and said it was because of his 302 in 2014. We went to the hospital and the only official form we got was his 201 voluntary commitment. This was also sent in with the PICs challenge form and they still denied him. My question is where should we go from here. The one incident was all we had and now he is a young father who just likes to hunt and fish and has grown up alot since he was 16 but now because of either an error somewhere or a lie by the hospital he can't own a gun. Any guidance would be great. Thanks

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by shamar100 View Post
    Ok I have searched and searched before I registered. I am posting on behalf of my son and looking for guidance. Back in 2014 my son was out 16 and out of control. My wife and I had him 302ed but with the understanding from the hospital that if he voluntarily 201ed himself when he got there the 302 would be null and void. So that's what he did because he hunted and didn't want to lose his gun privileges. Fast forward to 2 weeks ago and he tried to purchase a firearm and was denied. He did the PICs challenge and said it was because of his 302 in 2014. We went to the hospital and the only official form we got was his 201 voluntary commitment. This was also sent in with the PICs challenge form and they still denied him. My question is where should we go from here. The one incident was all we had and now he is a young father who just likes to hunt and fish and has grown up alot since he was 16 but now because of either an error somewhere or a lie by the hospital he can't own a gun. Any guidance would be great. Thanks
    Get a good lawyer, gunlawyer on this forum is very good. He might have a chance of getting the 302 invalidated, but it'll take someone with expertise in it. It will not be a cheap or easy endeavor. The only way to get it resolved is to show the 302 is invalid, otherwise it's a life long prohibition with no other recourse.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by R L Suehr View Post
    Get a good lawyer, gunlawyer on this forum is very good. He might have a chance of getting the 302 invalidated, but it'll take someone with expertise in it. It will not be a cheap or easy endeavor. The only way to get it resolved is to show the 302 is invalid, otherwise it's a life long prohibition with no other recourse.
    Yeah I understand the cost and the length but my question is if he has the 201 paper and that is the only thing the hospital has on file how the heck is it showing a 302. To me this seems like a clerical error somewhere and the last thing I can do is afford to pay out the ying yang for someone elses mistake. Thanks for the input. I'm not putting your input off or anything just very frustrated at this point.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by shamar100 View Post
    We went to the hospital and the only official form we got was his 201 voluntary commitment.
    You will still need a good 2A lawyer (so don't go inexperienced or cheap) but if you have this document in hand it should help a lot.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Your son should be able to obtain a copy of the medical record which should clearly state the type of admission. When I last worked in a Pennsylvania hospital, we had to submit a form to Harrisburg if someone was involuntary committed. I wonder if that form was accidentially sent to Harrisburg.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by shamar100 View Post
    Yeah I understand the cost and the length but my question is if he has the 201 paper and that is the only thing the hospital has on file how the heck is it showing a 302. To me this seems like a clerical error somewhere and the last thing I can do is afford to pay out the ying yang for someone elses mistake. Thanks for the input. I'm not putting your input off or anything just very frustrated at this point.
    Definitely understand the frustration. I would think that paper will help your case. As was stated above, get any and all records on the commitment from the hospital. 302 cases are tough and getting a lawyer involved is really the only way to get it resolved. Sucks for sure, but that's the truth of it.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by father-of-three View Post
    Your son should be able to obtain a copy of the medical record which should clearly state the type of admission. When I last worked in a Pennsylvania hospital, we had to submit a form to Harrisburg if someone was involuntary committed. I wonder if that form was accidentially sent to Harrisburg.
    I have that paper on hand. It clearly states Voluntary Commitment MH-781-7-82. This is what is frustrating with the whole thing. Now we have to wait to see if the cops show up because when he tried to buy the gun he truly didn't think anything was wrong. We did the PICS challenge so hopefully that helps but I am going to call around tomorrow to make sure there isn't a warrant out for his arrest yet.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    Quote Originally Posted by R L Suehr View Post
    Definitely understand the frustration. I would think that paper will help your case. As was stated above, get any and all records on the commitment from the hospital. 302 cases are tough and getting a lawyer involved is really the only way to get it resolved. Sucks for sure, but that's the truth of it.
    Sent that in with the PICS challenge form and they still denied him. I don't understand their thought process. I did see a date error from the PICS saying the commitment was 1/27/14 instead of 10/27/14 . That could have just been a typo when they sent out their determination though.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    1/27/14 instead of 10/27/14......

    That almost suggests the SP looked at someone else's records. Even if a typo, that's too damned unforgivably sloppy with a citizen's constitutional rights.
    There are two kinds of guns. Those I have acquired, and those I hope to.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Another 302 Question

    It's possible that a 201 was converted to a 302 during the stay, but unlikely, the same way that a 302 is sometimes bumped up to a 303 with an additional hearing.

    Certainly worth trying to track down the truth, but if PICS knows about the inpatient stay, it's because the hospital mailed them a 302 commitment form. Nobody's enumerated rights should be stripped away because some clerk mailed off the wrong form.
    Attorney Phil Kline, AKA gunlawyer001@gmail.com
    Ce sac n'est pas un jouet.

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