Brandishing and firing off a shot?

[gdc]

The system hates gun owners. Always keep that in mind.

That being said, the MAJORITY of defensive gun uses are brandishing or warning shots. That's just a fact. John Lott found evidence for millions of defensive uses of firearms every year, but we don't have millions of dead perps every year (just thousands). Even factoring in the reality that 90% of people who are shot survive (nb: 90% of non-head shots are survivable, but only 10% of head shots are), that means that millions of brandishings and warning shots effectively stop predators, every year.

Current PA law allows for brandishing and even warning shots, IF you can prove necessity or justification. PA law even allows you to kill an attacker, when legally necessary, so it sure allows lesser means to achieve the same goal.

It would be nice if PA courts understood that "using" deadly force is not the same as "threatening to use" lethal force, but anti-gun types permeate the system and they will want to require you to prove that you faced an imminent deadly threat before you drew your firearm. The difference is that "justification" requires you to establish that the harm the law you violated seeks to avoid, is less than the harm that you brandished your gun to avoid. So you can assault someone to avoid being murdered, but you can't murder someone to avoid being assaulted. The law you break has to be less serious than the law being broken by your attacker. No committing felonies to avoid summary or misdemeanor offenses, in other words.

That's why we need workshops....sorry Phil couldn't resist.

[Berncly]

I'll throw in my $0.02.
I agree that warning shots are almost always a bad idea.
Your life as you know it may be over as soon as you draw your firearm during an altercation, whether you fire it or not.
So do everything you can to avoid a situation where you would need to draw your firearm.
If you are honestly being threatened with imminent grave bodily harm or death, and escape is impossible, then shoot center mass to stop the threat.
Drawing a weapon for any reason should always be a last resort.

[internet troll]

Interesting story from this morning where a man pulled his gun but did not shoot.

MARYSVILLE, Wash. – Marysville police said a homeowner did everything right when he came face-to-face with a criminal on the lam Monday morning, putting his conceal-and-carry permit to the test.

The homeowner, Joe Hemrich, said it took the decade of training with his pistol to teach him not to pull the trigger on the man.

“I swing the door open and say, hey! He turned and that’s when I said, put your hands in the air,” Hemrich said. There is a video a the link but I did not watch yet.

http://q13fox.com/2017/09/18/marysvi...th-wanted-man/

Marysville police applaud homeowner’s handling of confrontation with wanted man


Marysville homeowner confronts wanted man

Just after midnight Sunday, Hemrich was staring straight into the eyes of a man with whom police said had four warrants out for his arrest.

Hemrich said he didn’t know that at the time -- all he knew in that moment was this man was holding a baton and was four feet away from his child’s bedroom.

“Up until two weeks ago, we had 70-degree nights, so those windows are open at night,” he said.

The father of three held his stance in the doorway, holding the pistol he owned and trained with for 12 years.

“This the first time in my life it has ever come out of a holster, when I wasn’t at a range,” he said. “I train so I know exactly where it is, exactly how to pull it out, whether my finger is going on the trigger.”

Hemrich said it’s that extensive training and comfort with his weapon that allowed him to focus on the man in front of him, not on his gun, “which is why no one got shot last night,” he said.

Hemrich said he’s heard the horror stories of what can happen in situations where homeowners confront criminals. He said when it comes to weapons, good Samaritans can wind up hurting others.

“You have to know how to use it. If not, you’re just a liability,” he said, talking about his gun.

Last week, a Bonney Lake homeowner received more than eight years in prison for accidentally killing his neighbor with a stray bullet. The man fired at a man stealing his car. It’s cases like that, said Hemrich, that were in the back of his mind in his situation.

“I carry a firearm to protect myself, my family, my community with the intentions of never having to use it,” he said.

Surveillance video captured Hemrich walk the suspect at gunpoint to the front of his yard, ordering the man to the ground and holding him until police arrived.

“I could see quite clearly there was a good-size knife sticking out the top of his backpack,” he said.

The entire altercation from when he confronted the man, to when police arrived lasted about five minutes, he said, adding that it was the longest five minutes of his life.

Marysville police said Hemrich did everything right in Monday morning’s altercation. They said most importantly, Hemrich complied with officer’s commands when they arrived on scene.

The suspect was reported to be a 23-year-old transient with four warrants for his arrest.

[Bang]

When seconds counted, the police were five minutes away. ^^^^ Another example of why we must be responsible for ourselves. The victim is always the first responder.

[fallenleader]

Interesting story from this morning where a man pulled his gun but did not shoot.

MARYSVILLE, Wash. – Marysville police said a homeowner did everything right when he came face-to-face with a criminal on the lam Monday morning, putting his conceal-and-carry permit to the test.

The homeowner, Joe Hemrich, said it took the decade of training with his pistol to teach him not to pull the trigger on the man.

“I swing the door open and say, hey! He turned and that’s when I said, put your hands in the air,” Hemrich said. There is a video a the link but I did not watch yet.

http://q13fox.com/2017/09/18/marysvi...th-wanted-man/

Marysville police applaud homeowner’s handling of confrontation with wanted man


Marysville homeowner confronts wanted man

Just after midnight Sunday, Hemrich was staring straight into the eyes of a man with whom police said had four warrants out for his arrest.

Hemrich said he didn’t know that at the time -- all he knew in that moment was this man was holding a baton and was four feet away from his child’s bedroom.

“Up until two weeks ago, we had 70-degree nights, so those windows are open at night,” he said.

The father of three held his stance in the doorway, holding the pistol he owned and trained with for 12 years.

“This the first time in my life it has ever come out of a holster, when I wasn’t at a range,” he said. “I train so I know exactly where it is, exactly how to pull it out, whether my finger is going on the trigger.”

Hemrich said it’s that extensive training and comfort with his weapon that allowed him to focus on the man in front of him, not on his gun, “which is why no one got shot last night,” he said.

Hemrich said he’s heard the horror stories of what can happen in situations where homeowners confront criminals. He said when it comes to weapons, good Samaritans can wind up hurting others.

“You have to know how to use it. If not, you’re just a liability,” he said, talking about his gun.

Last week, a Bonney Lake homeowner received more than eight years in prison for accidentally killing his neighbor with a stray bullet. The man fired at a man stealing his car. It’s cases like that, said Hemrich, that were in the back of his mind in his situation.

“I carry a firearm to protect myself, my family, my community with the intentions of never having to use it,” he said.

Surveillance video captured Hemrich walk the suspect at gunpoint to the front of his yard, ordering the man to the ground and holding him until police arrived.

“I could see quite clearly there was a good-size knife sticking out the top of his backpack,” he said.

The entire altercation from when he confronted the man, to when police arrived lasted about five minutes, he said, adding that it was the longest five minutes of his life.

Marysville police said Hemrich did everything right in Monday morning’s altercation. They said most importantly, Hemrich complied with officer’s commands when they arrived on scene.

The suspect was reported to be a 23-year-old transient with four warrants for his arrest.

i believe when it comes to a home invasion, it's assumed you will be live and ready to rock with a squeeze.
however, one must also be cautious they do not shoot their family member whom happened to wake up for a midnight snack.
if they're on ambien or something, might be a different story. people go nuts and stab people to death in their sleep on that crap.

[PhillySoldier]

I think there are times (as shown above) that brandishing is enough to deescalate the situation but one "must" be ready to go further once he does draw that gun. As far as warning shots, the only scenario I could picture ever doing that is if it was to scare off an animal and that only if I could put the round into something safe like a dirt hill.

[marinville]

Marysville police said a homeowner did everything right when he came face-to-face with a criminal on the lam Monday morning...“I swing the door open and say, hey! He turned and that’s when I said, put your hands in the air,"...this man was holding a baton and was four feet away from his child’s bedroom...Hemrich said it’s that extensive training and comfort with his weapon that allowed him to focus on the man in front of him, not on his gun, “which is why no one got shot last night,” he said.

Yea, FUCK THAT. All this guy should have been focused on was his front sight post. No commands, just bye bye asshole.

This guy gambled with his family's lives. Lucky for his, the invader didnt put up much of a fight. Lucky for his kid, rather. If I were this guy I would be questioning my resolve and whether I should even continue carrying a gun, rather than patting myself on the back.

They should have been scrubbing that shitbird off the walls.

[Lexington]

Yea, FUCK THAT. All this guy should have been focused on was his front sight post. No commands, just bye bye asshole.

This guy gambled with his family's lives. Lucky for his, the invader didnt put up much of a fight. Lucky for his kid, rather. If I were this guy I would be questioning my resolve and whether I should even continue carrying a gun, rather than patting myself on the back.

They should have been scrubbing that shitbird off the walls.

Didn't the assailant turn once the homeowner shouted at the man? That means the homeowner would have shot him in either his side or his back had he just opened up on the guy. I'd be on the homeowner's side, but I'm not sure how that would go over your average prosecutor or grand jury, especially since the assailant had a baton rather than a firearm of his own. And this happened outside the home, even if just outside it.

I think he exercised good restraint, given the circumstances.

[marinville]

Didn't the assailant turn once the homeowner shouted at the man? That means the homeowner would have shot him in either his side or his back had he just opened up on the guy. I'd be on the homeowner's side, but I'm not sure how that would go over your average prosecutor or grand jury, especially since the assailant had a baton rather than a firearm of his own. And this happened outside the home, even if just outside it.

I think he exercised good restraint, given the circumstances.

An intruder in my home isnt getting a chance to explain himself, especially an armed one... outside my kids bedroom. If the jury doesnt like that, then so be it. Im not playing games with my family's safety.

Where did you get that it was outside his home?

[itchinesu]

Someone on here argued that firearms can be used to de-escalate a hostile scenario, especially with laser sighting. Hopefully they don't come around anymore, because that was probably the dumbest thing I ever read. Drawing on anyone certainly escalates the situation, especially if you have a dot on them. Your life is either in danger or it isn't.